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Capital forces drivers to pay up or go green



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Published Date: 22 July 2008
THOUSANDS of motorists in Scotland's capital will have to pay up to £240 a year more to park their cars under radical plans aimed at encouraging people to switch to greener vehicles, The Scotsman can reveal.
Owners of the biggest gas-guzzlers in central Edinburgh will see their annual parking permit fee increase from £160 to £320 under the proposed scheme, which will also see owners of "second" vehicles pay up to £400 – 150 per cent more than current charges.

The charges would be based on a vehicle's emissions for cars registered after 2001. Older cars will be graded according to engine size. Fees will also vary for cars parked in the city's central zones and those in the outer areas.

The owner of a Lexus IS 250 who currently pays £160 to park in the inner zones or £80 for the outer will see their charge double to £320 or £160.

And a motorist who applies for a second permit to cover a Volvo C70 2.4i will see a rise of £240 in the inner zone and £120 in the outer districts.

However, thousands more motorists will benefit from the proposals, with owners of the least-polluting cars seeing the cost of their permit plummet to £30 for those living in the city's central parking zones, and £15 for those in the outer zones, where permits cost £80.

So the owner of an Audi A32.0 TDi parking in the centre of Edinburgh will pay £30 less and a Mini Clubman Cooper D driver, living in the centre of the capital, will see a reduction of £60.

Edinburgh city council claims that the plan, which would be the first of its kind in Scotland, will financially benefit two-thirds of permit holders, with 20 per cent paying more and 14 per cent unaffected.

But the plans, to be considered by councillors next week, are sure to be controversial, with many motorists struggling to deal with the high cost of fuel and already facing proposed increases in road taxes.

Many families will also be hit in the pocket by a proposed 25 per cent surcharge on second permits – meaning households with several car owners are likely to suffer the most.

The move is intended to encourage people to switch to less-polluting vehicles – and tackle complaints from residents who say they cannot find a space to park despite owning a permit.

Robert Aldridge, the council's environment leader, told The Scotsman it was "reasonable" that motorists who own 4x4s and other big polluting vehicles should pay more.

He said: "There is a national acceptance that more needs to be done to influence the vehicle choices that people make. If this is to happen, then local authorities need to play their part and take action to bring about local change.

"It is clear to me that, with ongoing monitoring identifying several key locations in the city where levels are causing concern, it is our responsibility to take measures designed to make city centre residents consider the impact that their vehicle choice has on our city."

There are currently about 17,000 permits in Edinburgh, an estimated 3,500 of which are for "second cars".

A report to be discussed by the council's transport, infrastructure and environment committee next Tuesday will state that the scheme will make relatively little difference to council revenues, with an anticipated £50,000 reduction in the £1.7 million that is generated from parking permits every year.

The report signals that owners of vehicles with large engines, and which emit large amounts of , are likely to be increasingly targeted by local authorities as well as central government, where Prime Minister Gordon Brown is driving forward plans to impose swingeing road tax increases for many.

"(The] national acceptance that measures need to be taken ... should be seen as an indication that local authorities should also be prepared to take appropriate actions to bring about local change," the report states.

Taking their cue from London scheme

CONTROVERSIAL "differential charging" schemes for parking permits in London have provided the inspiration for Edinburgh's latest plan to tackle air pollution and congestion.

Andrew Mackay, the author of the report that councillors will consider next week, looked at similar charging schemes in Camden, Richmond and other boroughs.

Richmond was the first local authority to link the price of residents' parking permits to engine emissions, in 2006. A survey revealed 49 per cent of residents supported the idea, while 39 per cent were opposed. Two-thirds of respondents suggested the plans would make them consider buying a less-polluting vehicle.

The Liberal Democrat council has since gone further, introducing plans to charge parents up to £75 a year for parking permits allowing them to drop their children off on the school run. A pilot project will start in September.

The move in Edinburgh, which is governed by a Liberal Democrat/SNP coalition, follows a Lib Dem manifesto commitment before the 2007 election to consider a scheme like the one in Richmond.

HOW THE CHARGES WILL AFFECT YOU




The full article contains 852 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 00:16:00

Good! now we can get theses irritating, unneeded, snob value, '4x4,s' off our Town Roads!

Praise be Given to,..Edinburgh City Council.
2

truthsleuth,

22/07/2008 00:36:08
The first step forward
When I try to park my car between two of these 4x4 monsters its impossible to open the car door.
If you leave your car next to one check your bodywork you will find it has been damaged by their drivers teading on your roof to get in!!!!.
3

McMadman,

http://scottishreferendum2008.blogspot.com 22/07/2008 01:31:59
Spend the extra on more trams...

Watch out for the antitram mob any time now...
4

Guga II,

Rockall 22/07/2008 01:44:33
#1. Do you not realise that rural dwellers who actually need a 4x4 have to come into town now and again. I'm sure most of them can't afford to buy a second car just so that they don't take up any space on your "town roads". Incidentally they are already paying road tax to use all roads. Nor, might I point out, are all 4x4 drivers "snobs". We don't all use them as "Chelsea Tractors".

As for Edinburgh City Council, the people in Edinburgh should be getting ready to give them the boot at the next council elections. Motorists are having more than enough stolen from them by the Westmiddenster government without a bunch of idiots in Edinburgh setting out to penalise and steal even more from them.
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 01:50:44

Guga II ~4,

"rural dwellers who actually need a 4x4 have to come into town now and again"

They are NOT the ones entitled to hold, "parking permits"

Maybe you missed the Point!
6

McMadman,

http://scottishreferendum2008.blogspot.com 22/07/2008 02:01:28
#4

Aye right. 20 years of liebore cooncil was a resounding success then. Spent all the money, then blamed it on everyone else, and still hivnae got ower it; ask the jolly rev aitken now departed as liebore opposition leader cus he couldnae hackit not being in charge of ra cooncil.
7

Guga II,

Rockall 22/07/2008 02:06:04
#5. You were the one that came out with the nasty bit about "now we can get theses irritating, unneeded, snob value, '4x4,s' off our Town Roads", thus tarring all 4x4 owners with the same brush. Perhaps you should have been a bit more specific.
8

Rolland Butter,

Embra 22/07/2008 02:14:13
I suspect that the owners of these large vehicles probably regard the sum of money involved in the proposed increase as pocket money.
In fact the ammount of money involved is similar to filling the thing with fuel a couple of times.
The obvious conclusion is that this is no more than yet another money making exercise on the part of the cooncil.
Surely prohibition by weight or physical size of the
vehicle is the only way to rid the streets of these
offensive monsters - and their cars.
9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 02:16:25

Guga II ~7,

Point taken!,....but my reference was related to the article, I have NO objection to the use of 4x4's in what you talk about. "Perhaps" you should of,..

'read into the article more'.

Townies, don't need 4x4's, It is a 'Posh&Becks' scenario!

I need to,..'Show-Off',..I need a 4x4"!

Like Hell!, ..they do!
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 02:20:33

A 'friendly' Fiat Punto, is just fine for town use! :)
11

Guga II,

Rockall 22/07/2008 02:28:02
#10. Yes, but you can't throw a couple of bales of hay and a couple of sheep into a Punto.
12

McMadman,

http://scottishreferendum2008.blogspot.com 22/07/2008 02:30:23
Come on, you know trams are the answer. Park at a park and ride and get on a tram, dafties...
13

Guga II,

Roclkall 22/07/2008 02:53:58
#12. Fine, but you'll have a helluva long wait for a tram to come along.
14

William of Liberton,

EDINBURGH 22/07/2008 04:01:43
The Council will definitely not encourage a switch to other forms of transport, the bicycle in particular, if they continue the grand old tradition of permitting motorists to "garage" their cars on the street. Instead of fiddling about with permits to allow motorists to do that they should be prohibiting all on-street "garaging": own a car, then find off-road parking or do with out it. At present we even have on-street residential parking places delineated over some so-called cycle lanes.
15

allatsea,

Jakarta 22/07/2008 04:02:38
About time the council and the polis did something to make it safe for kids to walk to and from school again thus removing all the extra cars that the drop off/pick up brigade add to the city's motorised problem. Drivers are an easy target always have been always will be. About time someone started thinking outside the box for revenue ideas. :)
16

calum,

22/07/2008 05:28:53
.....and for those of us 4x4 owners who live in the city but work in the country on emergency call-out? More ill-informed people making their judgement on the life style of others with no basis. Meanwhile the same council officials live outside Edinburgh and commute in to a "reserved" parking space!
17

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/07/2008 05:49:04
Back to the horse and cart with Embra ! Especially when the Tram fund dries up.
18

JD Qatar,

Bathgate/Doha 22/07/2008 06:38:48
#16 Calum, well said.
Couldn't agree more.
ill informed judgements from cerain sections of the public. What happened to freedom of choice in the UK?
19

Regulator,

Surabaya 22/07/2008 06:46:51
It's just another tax on cars and if someone has spent 50K on a gas-guzzling 4x4, 2 or 3K a year on insurance and £100 every time they top up at the service station, do you think an extra £160 a year is going to make a difference to them?
20

Labour Sleeze Reporter,

22/07/2008 07:10:50
Hang on. Lib Dems and SNP are telling everyone who will listen in Glasgow East that cars shouldn't be retrospectively taxed but in Edinburgh the local mafias are deciding to do exactly that.

Arissholes.
21

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 22/07/2008 07:25:39
GUGA 2.

Rural dwellers do NOT NEED 4x4s. We have lived rurally for years and NEVER been let down by an ordinary car.

In any event, gas guzzlers can be left in park-and-rides to avoid these EXCELLENT new taxes.
22

Boy Wonder,

22/07/2008 07:38:02
How much will Chuckles Linskaill have to pay for his posting licence? Do 94 year-olds get it cheaper??
23

SS,

22/07/2008 07:47:42
Pure fund raising - that is all it is.

...And quotes like this please. Grow up!. "now we can get theses irritating, unneeded, snob value, '4x4,s' off our Town Roads".

I love 4x4s and I'm not a snob either. Very modest working class upbringing if you must know. I would just simply refuse to buy a hideous and visually unappealing 'people carrier' to ferry the family about in - a 4x4 is much more practical.

Anyhow, the bottom line is all of you above pointing out things like this are right, "50K on a gas-guzzling 4x4, 2 or 3K a year on insurance and £100 every time they top up at the service station, do you think an extra £160 a year is going to make a difference to them?". Its not going to make a difference at all - however it will irritate people because it is an unnecessary and extra tax.

p.s. 2-3k on insurance - under £400 fully comp if you look about.
24

gus1940,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 07:53:24
When is our wonderful council going to realise that the main cause of Edinburgh's traffic problems is the cars of commuters - not those of city residents?
25

Goat Boy,

22/07/2008 08:05:02
What a lot of rubbish. It's not car ownership that's the problem, it's how you use your car. And compared to the pollution caused by homes, industry and retail, this gesture is a joke. Good to see the Council is showing such a good understanding of these issues. This is a money making scheme and nothing else.

I suspect that there may well be a good discrimination case - because it's certainly not justified.
26

Keithie Boy,

St Albans 22/07/2008 08:26:13
Eh, this won't happen. It's illegal. I think you'll find that when Porche went after the London Mayor on this it quickly became apparent that tax law actually forbids this type of action. So Boris very quietly gave Porche some money to go away and drop the case. Oh and before the whole Scottish parliament lots wade in with this not being in Scottish law or being controlled by Holyrood, do a little checking and you'll find out that exactly the same rules apply in Scotland. Dumb idea. Last time I checked parked cars don't emit CO2. They've got to be moving stupid. As usual Embra Toon Cooncil want to kill central Edinburgh by preventing people from living there. How many people who live in central Edinburgh and work there actually drive to work. Eh, that'll be virtually none. Man these guys are thick.
27

11+failed,

the pans 22/07/2008 08:27:43
Great to read all the usual smug,selfish and self righteous on here delighting in penalising those who happen to have made a bit more success with their lives and or have the temerity to want something different from the common herd. Personally none of this tinkering with taxation affects me, however I take no pleasure from interfering with or dictating to those who lead lifestyles slightly different from my own. As for pathetic, smug, show off,look at me, Punto drivers, why can't they settle for a Panda (not a 4X4 version of course)or a Smart?
28

Who?,

22/07/2008 08:54:03
What the lunatic who proposed this idea has failed to work out is that many of the measures proposed and implemented in london never worked.

Why should a family be penalised for legitimatly needing a second car? I travel regulary on edinburgh's public transport and it is awful. Most of the busses are dirty and unsafe. People regulary get attacked for no reason on these busses with the drivers turning a blind eye, yet we are being forced out of car into this.

When the trams are completed the local council will have a very unhealthy monopoly on transport in edinburgh which must be stopped. Why is it that when very average people get into local government they turn corrupt spouting nonsence.
29

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 22/07/2008 09:03:15
And what about those awful women who drive one child a few yards to school in a 4*4 . Impound these vehicles I say .
30

Non 4x4 driver,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 09:06:59
I wonder what the council will do if this so called green policy actually works in forcing car drivers out of the city and they end up with a budget deficit!
31

radge dug,

Dùn Eideann 22/07/2008 09:08:48
Good news. 4x4 'W~nk Tanks' are a blight. Even in many rural parts of Scotland, they're not needed. In Lewis, for example, do Nisich or Siaraich need one to drive between Cros or Siabost to Stornoway? Unless a crofter or farmer needs one on rough land then there's really no reason to have one.

The Herald reported a couple of years ago a study that revealed that some 70% of SUV drivers had some kind of mental illness. Says it all really.

As to 2-car families, if our parents could do without them in the 70s then why not now? Public transport is generally much better than 30 years ago. Again, no excuse. Lazy whinging lard-arrses - get on your bikes!
32

Nubar Gulbenkian,

22/07/2008 09:09:36
People residing in Edinburgh have no need to have a car. They have excellent bus services which will soon be augmented by the trams.
Surely the Council should be imposing a punitive parking regime on residents to free up the space for those of us who live outside the town to park.
33

radge dug,

22/07/2008 09:12:09
#32 - Dave. Good points. Maybe if there were less out of town shopping centres and more local high street shops and cinemas then our culture generally would benefit. The Germans, Spanish and French all manage it and seem generally to have a better way of life.
34

Who cares.,

Dunfermline 22/07/2008 09:12:39
Some of these comments portray an Edinburgh for Edinburgh people,next you will be wanting your own state what a parochial attitude.
35

4isbetterthan1,

Fife 22/07/2008 09:12:59
It wont be long before the car manufacturers manage to lower the emissions of the 4x4's to normally car standard and that will really flummox these hypocritical council leaders! BMW have already made great strides in this.
36

Grumpy,

22/07/2008 09:13:21
Do we really think the bulk of residents who can afford 4x4s and live in the likes of The Grange, Ravelston, Cramond etc really care about this - especially as there ar no parking permits required(yet) where they live.

Bu will the increased charge mean that there are more parking spaces? No. Will it do anything to reduce polution from parked vehicles? No. Is it a means of extracting cash from people to counteract deficient accounting within Edinburgh Council? Yes.
37

Grumpy,

22/07/2008 09:16:02
(39) Read the books by Paul Johnston (The Bone Yard, Water of Death, The Blood Tree, etc) if you want to read about what Edinburgh will be lke in 2020 when it becomes an independant state.
38

energizer,

edinburgh 22/07/2008 09:28:42
Working at home today so I have time to read these unrepresentative rants.
Edinburgh is unique in the UK in being a city in which real people inhabit the city-centre. Real people have cars.
I live in the recently extended controlled parking zone where residents now have to pay to park outside their front door. The expensively installed parking meters sit empty and even the scooter-borne traffic wardens come by once in a blue moon because no-one from outside the area parks there. They've just moved up the road outside the zone boundary.
This is revenue raising pure and simple, despite the zero-sum comment. Trust me, no Council goes through all that effort to get no return, not even a Liberal one - it needs the money for its hare-brained schemes elsewhere. A Councillor is quoted as saying the move is 'reasonable'. Perhaps in his mind. Perhaps a policy of smaller buses would help, as these run empty most of the time while pumping out much higher pollution per capita. They are only near-full at peak times and only on some routes. Ah, but the Cooncil owns most of the bus company doesn't it?
At the margins, a few well-heeled types might re-locate out of town, but for the rest of us, it's just another cost of living in Edinburgh. At some point this electorate will wake up to itself and stopped being gulled by the clowns of all parties in the City Chambers.
39

geekpie,

forfar 22/07/2008 09:37:00
[from article] "...meaning households with several car owners are likely to suffer the most."

As of course they should.

In May, a study by the Rowntree Foundation concluded that a car was a luxury. It is just that, even for people living in rural locations.

If 1 car is a luxury, what does that make 2 cars, and big cars?

It's entirely moral to tax both categories hard.
40

Spondoolicks,

location 22/07/2008 09:56:03
Hilarious!

As most of the wealthy in Edinburgh have a house with a drive or garage this increase in the permit charge will have absolutely no effect on their choice of car be it Aston Martin, Ferrari, Bently Continental (oh, sorry these aren't 4x4's but they're just as polluting...) and, of course, Range Rover.

No

Those that will be forced to consider dumping their high-emission cars will be the folks who have to park on the street and have treated themselves to a nice (although environmentaly unsound) vehicle.

So

The wealthy stay in their cars and the less wealthy have to get rid of theirs.

Nice
41

Whoppit,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 09:57:25
The proposals miss the point. The primary cause of congestion and the associated environmental damage in Edinburgh is the number of people who drive in everyday. What is the relative environmental impace of someone driving in from Fife relative to the an Edinburgh resident who leaves the car parked outside and takes the bus.

Rather than taxing the residents of Edinburgh, we should put in a congestion charge that covers everywhere inside the bypass COMBINED with a comprehensive park and ride scheme.

Don't tell me that it won't work - the whole of Ediburgh outside the current resident's parking zone is a huge informal park and ride scheme already. Lets just give it a bit of added incentive.
42

jdships,

22/07/2008 10:03:46
1 Charles Linskaill,Edinburgh
I don't own a 4x4 nor do I wish too but your post supports that wonderful Scot's trait of " If I can't have one why should you" !!!!!!!!!
43

jdships,

22/07/2008 10:08:21
47 Whoppit,Edinburgh

Good post !!!!!
I live outside the restriction zone , on the Nth side of the City.
A man who lives inside the zone parks his car outside my house every evening and walks 800m home.
When he takes it away in the morning it is replaced by a lady from Fife who then walks 150 yards to join a bus.
44

4isbetterthan1,

Fife 22/07/2008 10:19:59
#47, Serious point, I and all of my friends have now moved out of Edin as we have been priced out of the market. Haven't we been penalised enough? I love my beautiful city and it broke my heart to leave it. All these supposed environmental measures are just stealth tax. Why is the council following a local policy, which UK wide has been a political disaster for Lab. Also, why does the UK think it is so important as a world player when in actual fact our voice is very small indeed? Our leaders seem to think we still have the same powers in the world as we did over 100 years ago. Nobody gives a $hit about us or our self-inflated opinion.
45

moon glorious 1874,

22/07/2008 10:27:34
unless you regularly drive through fields or up mountains there is no need for 4x4`s. 10-15 years ago only farmers had them and they were tatty land rovers. the problem is people acting like sheep and all posing, FACT!
46

4isbetterthan1,

Fife 22/07/2008 10:30:44
#51, if people want to pose let them. There is no law against it. However, I'm sure Labour will make it ilegal soon and the SNP will say you can only pose if you are over 21. It was the car manufacturers who obvioulsy felt there was a market for these 4x4's and boy were they right!
47

11+failed,

the pans 22/07/2008 10:37:14
29 Dave from Barra ©,
"What's wrong with a 4X4 Panda? It has all the emmissions discharge of a Ford Fiesta."
Absolutely nothing wrong with a 4X4 Panda, just that some on here might be offended by the 4X4 badge on the back.And yes, from their posts they are that daft.
48

The Strategist,

22/07/2008 10:42:04
So if I run my Humvee on hydrogen is that OK?

49

Whoppit,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 10:49:49
4isbetterthan1 @50

I am not suggesting that you pay more, what I am suggesting is that we provide a realistic alternative to the flood of cars that bung up the city every day. If people are prepared to take the bus from Murrayfield, why not further out. My suggestion is that those who choose to drive in pay, those who choose not to don't. Manchester is looking at charging only during rush hour, so a variable tarriff scheme would be possible, with fees varying from zero upwards. It would also encourage car sharing as the cost would be split amongst more passenger.

There are 2 types of tax. One designed to raise revenue, the other to change behaviour. If a congestion charge was brought in without providing an alternative, it is the former. If a meaningful alternative is provided, then it is the latter. The aim would be to raise zero revenue, as it would mean that everyone is taking the bus / train.

The proposal from the council is only a revenue raising scheme. It targets the residents of Edinburgh as they have no alternative but to pay up.
50

4isbetterthan1,

22/07/2008 11:06:13
#55, but isn't congestion self-regulating? Surely noboday would want to sit in their car for 2hrs if the bus only takes 30mins using the greenways. Further, if you didn't get on the Edin housing ladder 10 years ago you've been priced out so now us Edin folk pushed out will have to bus it in for the privaledge of either keeping the Edin economy alive or making sure the council services remain active. I do however sympathise with your point and I do see where you are coming from.
51

JD Qatar,

22/07/2008 11:34:53
#45 Geekpie,

That same report stated that holidays, internet and wine were essentials for daily life in Britain. I for one do not think it essential that i have to have a bottle of wine or have an internet connection to make my life complete.
I think we can agree that some of those items on those lists were strange to say the least.
One such exmple when a car is not a luxury is in the situation when Doctor is on call at all times of the day and night, public transport stops about midnight therefore a patient in need about 3am will need to wait until 6am until the doctor can catch a bus or train!!
That's just one example of how in my opinion a car cannot seriously be classed as a luxury item for daily life in Britain.
52

Bigwull,

edinburgh 22/07/2008 11:40:31
I'm 6 ft 7 why am I being punnished for being tall, anyone know of a small car I could fit my legs under the steering wheel and the break clutch and accelerator are far enough apart so that i dont hit both at once.
57 Doctors aren't on call anymore
53

stopsleepwalking,

West Lothian 22/07/2008 11:41:19
Parking charges based on car emissions! Another “green” revenue generation con.

A Boeing 747 emits the same as a Toyota Prius when its parked.
54

Donuts,

EDINBURGH 22/07/2008 11:42:10
Everyone is discussing types of cars but the real issue here is the Council trying to convince us they are trying to be Green to extract more money from Edinburgh residents. Its not just about 4X4s here as anyone with beyond basic level of car engine or people with older cars because they cannot afford a newer model could be penalised as not being Green or Eco Friendly which is being stamped on everything these days.
55

Dragonlord,

22/07/2008 11:53:26
Facist police state.Who gave the council the right to tell people what vehicle they can buy, when they were voted in? How many people who bought a large car to suit thier family's needs, but now can't afford to buy a new car, just to satisfy the council's greedy policy? Many families bought Ford mondeo's are now caught up in the government and council's anti car policy. This county produces less emmissions than most major industrial countries, but we still have the highest fuel( gas, electric, petrol, diesel)prices. Time for a change, time for independence. Scotland is self sufficient in green power and lower population density, let Englandshire look out for themselves and leave thier high prices behind.
56

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 22/07/2008 11:59:32
22 Boy Wonder

Where DID you get this fantastic (as in fantasy) figure of the purported age of 94 for Charles Linskaill?

Did it occur to you in one of your more fervid and fevered dreams of dear Charles? Does your wife know that you dream deleriously of men?

These gas-guzzlers are a menace to world environmentalism and even the major auto manufacturers are cutting back on their production or eliminating their manufacture and switching to more efficient vehicles because these polluting and inefficient monsters JUST AREN'T SELLING!

57

Who?,

22/07/2008 12:03:20
RE: #45 - geekpie

How is a car a luxury item?

Also people in rural areas do need a car due to labour policies. Labour gave the first group a monopoly on both the bus and train services outside the edinburgh area into east/west lothian and the central region.

First have reduced essential bus services in these areas while upping the price to a ver unreasonable rate. A friend at work told me that towns like bo'ness have 1 bus to edinburgh a day and that is at 7.30am. To get to edinburgh or glasgow people from there have to get a bus to linlithgow £2 plus a single fare to edinburgh £4.

A couple with two children could end up with little change out of £20. Plus they are exposed to the elements and the punctuality of the service (very bad).

This is mirrored across scotland and nothing is done about it. Why spent £20 and about 2 hours traveling 25 miles into edinburgh when you can drive it in 30 minutes?

Too many politicians are of extremely poor and dubious quality. The price of motoring should be reduced and a proper road network built instead of following stalinist transport policies.
58

Phil o Brian,

22/07/2008 12:15:53
I hate this Nanny state that has developed. A new law/bye law every 5 minutes. I read yesterday that you now need to get your trees checked annually and get a permit.
The worst thing is being told how to lead your life by a bunch of politicians/officals who need to get a life.
Also, if the council are worried about too many cars, why are they building all these 2 bed flats?
Rant over for today.
59

Mallet,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 12:16:04
I walk to work everyday and cycle to buy groceries, using my car infrequently for weekend trips. Why are we being penalised as opposed to those who use cars for commuting where there is public transport? I fear that this may encourage people to move further out of Edinburgh and drive more. If the council looked at usage and reducing that rather than the vehicles people use this would surely be more sensible. It seems to me this is more about council revenue than encouraging people to walk/cycle/use the bus etc.
60

St Andrew,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 12:34:05
All Edinburgh residents should be given a Taxi allowance similar to that given to councillors and MSP's to swan around town and we wouldn't need cars in town - problem solved!
61

Mad Jock,

East Lothian 22/07/2008 12:34:32
Let's get real here. This is a tax on choice. Not only that, but it will come on top of that idiot Darling's tax hikes on the same classes of vehicles, so it's a double tax.
Should we tax choice? How about a tax on the amount of plastic used to wrap your fruit and veg? The more you eat, the more you pay. How many light bulbs do you own? Each one has the potential to create carbon emmissions. Of course, the tax is for ownership, not actual use. So perhaps we should just tax your house on how many power outlets it has. How about those big 52" plasma TVs. Tax the lot of them. They pollute far more than my tiny little 12" CRT TV (sic). Perhaps we need something like the old Air Raid Wardens. Some old git wandering around your street screaming "turn that light out!". The light bulb and power socket tax can pay for that.
If you want to stop commuters from outside the city, STOP BUILDING NEW HOUSES IN THE COUNTRYSIDE!
If you seriously believe that every car driver that commutes to Edinburgh can use public transport then you have no idea about rural public transport services. For East Lothian, North Berwick - tiny car park. Drem - tiny car park. Longniddry - tiny car park. Haddington, Gifford, Garvald, Stenton - no stations. Bus services - fine if you live in a Stalinist State. Which we are rapidly heading for.
Just remember this. Whan all the 4x4's, Bentleys, Ferarris etc have been crushed, that revenue stream dries up, so then they will come after the next group, those gas guzzling hybrid cars.................
62

St Andrew,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 12:42:38
All parties at local and national level should set out a referendum of new laws and rules it wants to introduce. Apart from emergency changes, new law/rule changes such as this should either be voted on as part of a referendum or put on hold until the next election. No matter how justified people think this is, it was not mentioned at all during the council elections and if it had may have influenced how people voted.
63

Mad Jock,

East Lothian 22/07/2008 12:46:47
Just to add.............

To paraphrase Martin Niemoller:

"First they came for the 4x4 owners, but I was not a 4x4 owner so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the MPV owners and the Esatate car owners, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Panda owners, but I was not a Panda owner so I did not speak out.
And when they came for my Prius, there was no one left to speak out for me."

64

Eddie the Eagle,

Aberdeen 22/07/2008 12:53:15
Owning a 4x4 is becoming an essential part of Scottish life. The growl from a V8 engine has been shown to be the most effective way to drown out the whining from the self righteous brigade.
65

4isbetterthan1,

Fife 22/07/2008 13:09:01
#66,#67,#68,#69 & #70 absolutely fantastic, in particular #67. The eco warriors are now eco terriorists. If you don't make the same lifestyle choices as them then we are tutted at. I hate the lot of them and lets just wait and see how many of them are left once the utility bills go through the roof!
66

,

22/07/2008 13:23:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
67

,

22/07/2008 13:30:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
68

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 22/07/2008 13:32:25
All 4x4 owners should convert them to LPG like I did and confound the Poloticians, I have a range rover and converted to lpg its cleaner and cheaper
69

The Moog,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 13:46:06
Ok. I live in Edinburgh but have to drive every day to Perth to work. I leave the house at 7.30 every morning and often do not get home until anything from 7.30 to 11.30pm . I live in Leith and my office is in the outskirts of Perth so train or bus is not an option. I work in Perth because my previous employer was taken over and I have been seconded up here. Having witnessed the driving skills of other motorists on the motorway and encountered incredibly bad weather I decided I would feel safer in a small 4x4. I am not that well off and can just afford to run the car that gets me to work that pays my mortgage etc. I am already going to get penalised by the UK Government by the hike in excise duty,hikes in fuel prices and now this! This country and City is becoming a complete joke! I might as well pay my salary straight to the Inland Revenue and dish it out as they see fit!

I am fed up of hearing people on these forums rant about 4x4 drivers in town. For some of us its not as simple or practical as running around in a puddle-jumper!
70

Gary Dixon,

Colinton 22/07/2008 14:01:03
Remember the local authoirty is a voted in public service and if this not seen as acting in the public interest vote them out.We afterall pay our council tax which pays the local authority wages !! . They work for us , not us working for them. Sometimes I think the institutionalised local authority forget the needs of all (its local voters) in favour of political correctness or trendiness...
71

Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 22/07/2008 14:11:59
#59 stopsleepwalking
"A Boeing 747 emits the same as a Toyota Prius when its parked"
Fair comment. Trouble is as soon as the 747 starts up in town all the plastic supermarket bags are sucked through the engine intakes and are squirted out the back in a molten stream. Just make sure you are not in the line of fire. The wing span is a bit of a problem round some of the corners, too!
72

Whoppit,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:15:30
Remember when the council used to claim that the cost of a residents parking permit was to cover the cost of administration and enforcement?

We knew it wasn't true, but now they have dropped all pretence that it isn't a tax.
73

Graham P,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:53:12
#77 the Moog: What is your point? You live outside the permit zone, and even if you didn't, your car is never parked in Leith during the hours when a permit would be required.
74

,

22/07/2008 15:20:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
75

CS,

22/07/2008 15:23:15
Having just moved to an area that is almost all permit parking, the street my house is in is one of the few that is not. Needless to say that I have not yet been able to park my modest non 4x4 anywhere near my flat. So when my street goes onto permit parking I will be buying one and be safe in the knowledge that no one is likely to steal my little Renault when there are loads of Mercedes, BMW's and the like on offer!
76

steve52,

Kinfauns 22/07/2008 15:53:14
If The Council are serious about congestion and going green then there is one simple answer.........Lead the way....force ALL council workers to use park and rides. Now that would take one heck of a lot of cars off the road right away. The biggest polutters are buses as they run on the cheapest fuel money can buy.

Now I own a 4x4 cause thats MY choice. As it happens I need one. The facts are that people carriers and small cars pollute more as they speed along ALL our roads. Therefore burning more fuel.

This has nothing what so ever to do with being green, its all about raising more money for Edinburgh Council to spend on trams as they are running out of cash.

A large car takes up the same parking space as a small one so why punish only one type of car.?

Any hoo I dont live in Edinburgh and would not visit as its a tip. Even my 4x4 would be damaged driving on the pot holed roads.,
77

BK,

Cyberspace 22/07/2008 16:26:08
#31 And park them on zig zags three feet out from the kerb, as they inevitably seem to do, creating a huge danger for the other children.
78

George Mackay,

Dundee 22/07/2008 16:44:30
Streets are for moving about on, not parking. Car owners should arrange for their own off-street parking. Or pay to use public car parks. Same for every city. And it doesn't matter what kind of car. get parked cars off the streets.

77 The Moog. You work in Perth so you should live in Perth.
79

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/07/2008 17:18:43
24 - if us hicks don't park in Embra then there'll be plenty of parking spaces, aye right, my rrrsss. Ever seen central Embra at the crack of dawn ? overnight double parking, not a place to be found.
Anyway ,if it wasn't for us commuters Embra would be in a bigger pickle than it is now.
80

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/07/2008 17:20:42
39 they're welcome to the place.
81

Alanski2005,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 18:13:41
The majority of those numpties who use 4x4's in Edinburgh are finally getting it in the neck. Why don't you just admit it - you are mostly middle class selfish scum who don't give a damn about your social responsibilities. Those vehicles are anti-social, particularly in the cities, and use a vast amount of fuel. When I see single men or women driving those tanks around Edinburgh it makes me sick - and there's plenty of them. Whether the council have got it right is another matter, but the problem won't disappear without some action, and an improved public transport system. It's so typical of the society today that these grumbling smug fools will find any excuse to justify having one of those vehicles. Oh dear, your life must have been so awful before the 4x4 hit the market!
82

Axl,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 18:14:22
This is just complete nonsense and is yet another sign of this country's decline in the wake of the totally over-hyped and unfounded claims of so-called man-made 'climate change'.

And yet again(of course), the hard-working motorist gets hit in the pocket...


83

ColinMz,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 18:26:50
This proposal is not going far enough - for any vehicle with an engine over about 2 litres the owner should be made to pay at least £6000 (Six Thousand) a year for a permit. But I would not go so hard on second cars as long they are small and environmentally friendly.
84

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 18:29:28
The 'green' thing seems like a license to print money for the council/government ! ...

Let's face it the council doesn't care about 'green' they just care about taxing the begeebers out of us and labeling it 'green' so it looks like it is 'for our own good' ...

Personally I think it is pretty easy to forge a tax disc, get a dyslexic number plate and use red diesel ... only a fool would bow to this greedy government. Just don't pay your 'fines', or go to court if summoned, move house every year they will never catch up with you - if they do just say 'sorry, I had no idea about this I'll get it sorted straight away' and still don't pay and move house before they visit you again ... easy ! The law on motorist sounds all frightening but it is really toothless if you take it to the limit ... that is if you can be bothered to fight tyranny !?

If it was sensible then people will co-operate and say its a fair cop - this government is beyond a joke.


85

Itchy,

22/07/2008 18:41:33
#21 "In any event, gas guzzlers can be left in park-and-rides to avoid these EXCELLENT new taxes."

Told you you were a fascist.

These taxes are nothing to do with green credentials and are just another excuse to fleece the taxpayer.
86

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 18:43:20
91 - I just wouldn't pay and get a car so large and inefficient that the little 2 ton tow cranes couldn't lift it,I'd keep a dog in the car so they are not allowed to tow it and a angle grinder for any silly clamps they'd use .... anything else you'd like us to overcome ?
87

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 18:44:30

That should be 'an angle grinder' apologies to the 'english police' who are out today ....
88

Itchy,

22/07/2008 18:53:09
#91 A marxist proposal. Who says that Greens are just recycled communist.

#89 "Why don't you just admit it - you are mostly middle class selfish scum who don't give a damn about your social responsibilities"

Why don't you admit it? You hate people with more money than you and you wish the Russians had won the cold war.
89

Haggis MacBagpipes,

Central Canada-ex Perth & Glesca' 22/07/2008 19:37:40
#62-TimW1234,Ottawa,CDA.
Your comment ref:#22-Boy Wonder..
"Where DID you get this fantastic (as in fantasy) figure of the purported age of 94 for Charles Linskaill?
Did it occur to you in one of y