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Planning row hotel chief: 'Small-minded politics costs Scotland jobs'



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Published Date: 07 March 2008
THE businessman behind controversial proposals to expand the Aviemore Highland resort has launched a scathing attack on Scotland's "political backbiting" and sluggish planning system, which he claims discourage investors.
In a letter to The Scotsman, Donald Macdonald, the chief executive of Macdonald Hotels, said "real jobs and real opportunities are being threatened by the heavy hand of bureaucracy and small-minded politics".

Mr Macdonald also attacked "political gossip and point- scoring, neither of which helps those trying to promote business and job security".

And he warned: "Sadly, the future of Aviemore, like many other developments and opportunities in Scotland, continues to be dogged by the slow pace of approval and regulation. Business people like myself are losing heart and interest in trying when we know there are other places where we will be welcomed and supported in helping to drive economic success."

Mr Macdonald also called on the country to put its efforts into working together, rather than "wasting time and energy on petty arguing".

His comments come after Mike Rumbles, a Liberal Democrat MSP, stormed out of a Holyrood committee meeting when he was stopped from asking officials about political interference in the planning process.

He accused Roseanna Cunningham, the convener of the rural affairs committee, of bias when she stopped him questioning the officials of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa).

Last night, Mr Rumbles said he "couldn't agree more" with Mr Macdonald's complaint that the planning system was sluggish.

But he insisted that political questioning was essential "to make sure the planning system is robust and independent", and said problems occurred when people believed there were "special rules for the big boys".

The Aviemore planning application, which included improvements to the resort, a new supermarket and 140 houses, has been at the centre of a wrangle at Holyrood as Mr Macdonald gave £30,000 to the SNP last May.

The plan was originally opposed by Sepa on grounds of a flood risk. However, the organisation's objections were later withdrawn – and Labour and the Lib Dems allege political interference was at work.

Alex Salmond, the First Minister, has acknowledged that he called Jim Mackinnon, Scotland's chief planner, over the issue, while Mike Russell, the environment minister, contacted Campbell Gemmell, Sepa's chief executive, to raise concerns.

Mr Macdonald also met two other SNP ministers – Fergus Ewing and Jim Mather – at the SNP conference in Aviemore in October to discuss his application's progress.

Ministers have insisted that they acted within the rules and claim that if the project had collapsed it would have led to the loss of 300 jobs.

In his letter to The Scotsman, Mr Macdonald insisted claims of "ministerial interference and pressure on agencies throughout the recent debacle… does not stand up to scrutiny", and said his firm was losing more than £300,000 a month because of the delays.

The controversy erupted in the wake of the Trump saga, which has seen the SNP government face allegations of "sleaze" from Nicol Stephen, the Scottish Lib Dems' leader.

Donald Trump's plans for "the best golf course in the world" at Menie Estate, Balmedie, Aberdeenshire, were called in by the Scottish Government, after an Aberdeenshire Council committee rejected them.

It emerged there were meetings between Trump's aides, Mr Salmond – acting as the local MSP – and Mr Mackinnon.

Last week, it was announced that the plans would go to public consultation.

The application has thrown up heavy criticism of the planning process, with Mr Salmond's Council of Economic Advisers stating it has to be speeded up.

The Scottish Government is currently looking at the system.


The full article contains 606 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Sanny,

07/03/2008 00:24:05
I just hope that the Electorate remember at the next election that Labour and Lib Dem’s were more concerned in point scoring against the SNP than in the interests of Scotland. The SNP have shown time and again that they stay strictly within the rules. I would rather they bent a few rules to push our country forward.

I have always worked to the old adage “Rules were made for the guidance of the Wise and the obedience of Idiots. Let us ensure that when the opportunity arises we show the Bureaucratic Waster in the Labour and Lib Dem Party’s where the non-return door is.
2

Resolutions,

07/03/2008 00:44:09
MacDonald has a point - the planning process needs to be robust, but fair and at the moment, it appears to be creaking and in some cases. it seems that one 'department' can slow things by dillydallying.

Trying to score political points by accusations of sleaze etc do nothing for anyone.

Thw whole process needs to be open and transparent, which it is not at present.
3

williamx,

Canada 07/03/2008 01:11:08
If we had your planning committees over in Canada and the US nothing would have been built.
4

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/03/2008 04:07:45
Some people in the past have used the argument that having a long process does no one any harm. Well it is costing McDonald hotels 300,000 a month. As for you Encarta, crawl back under your composte heap you socialist wastril.
5

Bob10,

07/03/2008 04:49:54
A La Braveheart:-

Hamish had it right. "The Scots couldn't agree on the colour of sh!te".
6

overton,

balmedie 07/03/2008 05:41:11
Donald MacDonald is quite correct - his efforts to improve the resort at Aviemore should be applauded and encouraged not hampered by small minded, low quality councillors.
I hope that people do remember this and other recent planning fiascos which have been engineered by (mainly but not entirely) inadequate Lib Dem councillors and exercise their franchise properly at the next local elections.
Most councillors are in decision making positions due to the fact that people do not vote.
7

Pilrig.,

Livingston 07/03/2008 06:17:45
5 - a tory
8

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 07/03/2008 06:27:03
When someone insults you, you know s/he's your inferior.
9

brownlie,

Glasgow 07/03/2008 07:33:28
2 Encarta
You made the same comment about the minimum wage for people employed in the proposed Trump development and you must know that it is nonsense. Even if it was the minimum wage if you have ever had to claim benefit you would surely prefer to have a wage. The point he was making is that he waited over six, yes six, years for permission to be granted or refused and that is completely intolerable in any business.
10

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 07/03/2008 07:43:47
There is no question that this is about points scoring, however Cunningham is wrong to suppress questions.
11

conservative,

Fife 07/03/2008 07:48:09
Should come to Fife then where planning is easy.

Dobbies (the garden retailer) becomes a leisure outlet.
Any large housebuilder can build what they like.
Any large coalminer can dig where they like

Any ordinary guy can wait in line (unless he can afford the brown paper bag passport of course)
12

D2,

07/03/2008 08:00:54
wow-a business that can afford to lose £300,000 a month!The figures are either exagerated or Mr MacDonald has the most generous backers in history
13

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 07/03/2008 08:00:55
#10 brownlie

"The point he was making is that he waited over six, yes six, years for permission to be granted or refused and that is completely intolerable in any business."

If it was intolerable, I presume he could have walked away . The fact that he waited suggests it was worth his while. I'm not advocating long waits, but I question that the views of big business are more correct than those of politicians.
14

morris,

edinburgh 07/03/2008 08:00:56
10

Absolutely!
Any job with even the minimum wage is probably better than no job at all.(but its close of course).

His disapproval of the minimum wage being set at the level it is (which is nowhere near the European norm )is the handiwork of our WESTMONSTER friends,and I am confident only exists in Scotland because of the UK.
Ive always viewed the UK minimum age as being the level of slave wages that the Westmonster government wishes to encourage by declaring they will turn a blind eye to this figure, rather than a serious attempt to eradicate poverty!Many European countries do NOT emply this level which is unnaceptable to them.The poverty gap has widened under New Labour which is indisputable.Remove New Labour from Scotland and maybe you will start to remove poverty also!



15

brownlie,

Glasgow 07/03/2008 08:20:30
Selgovae,
"I question that the views of big business are more correct than politicians" Can I suggest politicians like Foulkes and Alexander?
Whether we like it or not big businesses do generate employment which benefits sthe community and politicians do not - unless it's for their relatives. You suggest that he could walk away. By doing so all the investment in buying the property, drawing up plans etc would be irretieveably lost. You are surely not suggesting that any investor would have to wait for over six years for a quango, with expenses funded by your taxes and mine, to make the decision they are paid to make?
16

,

07/03/2008 08:58:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

Miss Dee,

Tayside 07/03/2008 09:02:54
I am hopping mad! Is there nowhere left on this planet where greedy developers haven't sunk their teeth in? I applaud the Scots for not being suckers with their future. Once the elected officials start kowtowing to developers, all reason goes out the door. Send them packing- and keep your dignity!!!
18

thinking,

Scotland 07/03/2008 09:14:33
Surely the key complaint here is the time to get a decision.
If a decision is given in a reasonable time, whether the answer is yes or no, a business can move forward in the area they want or elsewhere. The hold up is not having a decision either way.
Indecision does cramp business and, therefore, does cost prospective employment.
19

Selgovae,

07/03/2008 09:15:18
#16 Brownlie

"doing so all the investment in buying the property, drawing up plans etc would be irretieveably lost."

I'd question the wisdom of investing so much without knowing whether you can go ahead. And I don't think Donald Macdonald is a fool. There's a risk of course, but I doubt all investment is lost. He still has the property. And how many of his other projects went ahead in the same period? You win some, you lose some. Ask any supermarket developer.

"You are surely not suggesting that any investor would have to wait for over six years"

I don't know the details of what the quango did in these six years. Were they sleeping, or negotiating with the developer? But as I said before, he didn't have to wait.

I'm not saying the politicians are right. Just that rich businessmen are not always to be believed either.
20

number withheld,

edinburgh 07/03/2008 09:16:13
Miss Dee,
I assume that you live in a mud hut then? Development needs to happen for any decent economy to progress, we need houses live in, buildings to work in and places to stay for tourists who put money into the economy. Other than private sector development do you envisage another way this can occur?
21

brownlie,

glasgow 07/03/2008 09:34:52
20 Selgovae;
You say you do not know what the quango was doing over the six years. That is exactly my point - if investors have to wait over six years for planning permission then all investment will grind to a halt and people will go elsewhere. One wonders how many expenses-paid meetings are being held over a period of years by previously unaccountable public bodies set up, presumably, for "friends" of the previous administration.
22

Drover,

Over here. 07/03/2008 09:36:51
#13 - He has. The Bank of Scotland holds 1/3 of the shares in the company. He holds 1/3 and a builder holds the other 1/3.

General point: If you were in this long term stalemate position, would you not bend the ear of every official or politician you could get within shouting distance of?
I would.
23

Clive Hamblin,

Sussex 07/03/2008 09:36:52
Congratulations Miss Dee. You've hit the nail on the head. Such people who try to sell their developments as a vast social service (I'm only doing this to provide jobs!) are working on the principle that you can fool all the people all of the time. If there weren't £m in it for them, they wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Whilst no one disputes that planning & development decisions should be taken as quickly and transparently as possible and that businessmen are entitled to reasonable profits,they should also consider the people who don't want to see their districts despoiled for the sake of greedy profit.
24

Doh,

07/03/2008 09:41:25


Another businessman that wants a return to laissez faire.

Maybe child labour next?

I shudder to think how much money we are all losing by not having child labour (over here).

I am not prone to swearing - but I swear to avoid any of his hotels in future.
25

Linda,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 09:56:46
Once again report does not state that Labour, Lid Dem and Tory local MSPs also put pressure on chief planning officer to speed things up to approver this development. SEPA had been dragging their feet on this for best part of 10 years.
26

Venachar,

07/03/2008 10:14:41
Have any of you tossers ever been to Aviemore?
It is a dump and the only good thing about it is the road runs straight through it so you don't have to stop!
Anything that improves the place should be put in place asap.
The Lib Dems are a bunch of NIMBY's and are only out to cause trouble because they have been found out in Scotland and people realise that they are no good at anything.
27

Huntlylad,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 10:15:53
This story isn't about minimum wages or "big business", its about whether Scotland's planning process can keep up with the demands of a competitive business environment. There doesn't seem to be any urgency in the planning process. Do they go for their tea at 5 o'clock? Or is this all a reflection of a body politic that is pro State and socialism and against the private sector and ambition?
28

Sedov,

Scotland 07/03/2008 10:18:31
I have some sympathy for Mr Mcdonald and I agree with most of the points he makes especially around the small- minded politics ( on all sides) which clogs up innovation and progress in Scotland. Much of this small mideness and silly point scoring that blights the social being of Scotland is replicated in many of the posts within this publication on all subjects. check and balances must be put into place but within reason but it's in the Scottish physche unfortunately that we hate people actually making better of themselves and do our best to bring things down rather than help things improve. Progress in also being curtailed by the incredible amount of bureaucracy that individuals and organisations from the basic community level upwards has to go through. A lot of this is coming from the banks and local authorities as well as from the European Union but most of comes from institutions being ultra careful and unable or unwilling to take risks to protect themselves. I strongly believe that as well as above, nationalism is a fetter to progress because its has all the ingredients to collapse innovation and enlightenment within its own nation state and close down ideas and contributions from outside " little Scotland" An independent Scotland would increase the problems for people like Mr Mcdonald. Only a planned socialist society on an internationalist basis with everyone participating and sharing in the wealth with each person contributing according to their needs and ability can Scotland and the world begin to stop the downward spiral toward barbarism and disaster.
29

mr angry,

ayrshire 07/03/2008 10:20:12
#18 You idiot, you obviously do not live in remote area and need a job. People need to make money and the spin-off is some local people will get jobs that allow them to live in the area. Would you rather that we had no jobs or people in Scotland. Get a grip.
30

Miss H,

07/03/2008 10:22:16
14 But what politicians are opposed to the Aviemore resort being developed?

Indeed, what politicians are opposed to the Trump development?

I think you will find that the locally elected members are in favour and have been lobbying in favour.

31

mr angry,

ayrshire 07/03/2008 10:22:47
#24 another idiot spouting drivel , as #27 said the place is falling apart, we should be knighting this guy for being willing to put up his money to improve the place.
32

Auckland Arab2,

07/03/2008 10:24:12
#17, #18 & #25

You people have no clue what you are talking about, period. You are just sounding off because Macdonald is a businessman, not because you understand the rights or wrongs of this. Also, you clearly have never been to Aviemore because if you had been you would have seen the massive improvement Macdonald has made to the previous eyesores that were there. The whole site of the Aviemore Highland Resort was more like something out of Orwell's 1984 than a world class destination before Macdonald spent millions redeveloping it. But clearly there are some people on this thread who would prefer to holiday at such a place. Small minded people hold Scotland back.
33

Miss H,

07/03/2008 10:24:58
18 A particularly stupid point. People would not be able to live in Aviemore if it were not for money spent by visitors. Presumably you would be quite happy with that. You may want to consider the feelings of the locals - or maybe not. Perhaps they don't matter to you.
34

Miss H,

07/03/2008 10:27:49
24 What people are those then? What local people are objecting? Name them.
35

Queen D,

Glasgow 07/03/2008 10:40:08
Anyone out there tell me how long it takes Tesco and the other huge supermarkets to get planning permission?
Any journalist ever researched that?
Aviemore has been allowed to disintegrate before our very eyes.
An investment of this kind can only be an improvement.
36

Highland Mighty,

07/03/2008 10:44:58
"His comments come after Mike Rumbles, a Liberal Democrat MSP, stormed out of a Holyrood committee meeting when he was stopped from asking officials about political interference in the planning process.

He accused Roseanna Cunningham, the convener of the rural affairs committee, of bias when she stopped him questioning the officials of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa)."

The SNP Convenor stopped another Committee member from investigating SNP political interference in planning??

Oh dear!

37

A Voice From SCOTLAND ;o),

07/03/2008 10:46:50
29 Sedov,Scotland 07/03/2008 10:18:31


Good God man your utterly dreich marxist mutterings are bad enough.

But at least have some mercy and break up your droning using paragraphs.

That at least will allow a skim through and confirm that you are worth a smile and then move on.

Have a wee chat with nurse and see if your medication is strong enough, I fear you may be a tad light on the old chemicals.
38

subrosa,

07/03/2008 10:46:53
# 33

Entirely agree. What a dump Aviemore has been for many years. This man has done wonders and he's taking quite a risk sticking his money into this place because most people just want to get past it as fast as possible. All Aviemore has to offer is tourism and it's been that way for the past 50 years.

Congratulations to Mr Macdonald for his tenacity.
39

AllyFraeEmbra,

Near the Castle 07/03/2008 10:49:48
A Scottish planner goes on holiday to Mexico. Having been there for a few days, he wanders into a bar and asks the barman "I keep hearing this word, Manyana. Can you tell me what is means?"
"Well Senor" replies the barman, "It means that we will get round to doing this tomorrow."
"Oh" replies the bemused planner, "We don't have a word for anything that hasty where I come from."
:-)
40

GP,

07/03/2008 10:53:07
Planning is one of the single most failures of this country. Whether it is small or large planning has too much red tape and restrictions. We need to focus on developments that could creat problems and fast track the other 99%.
Too slow, too amateur, and too easy to claim corruption maybe involved. Clean up your act planners!
41

brownlie,

glasgow 07/03/2008 10:54:13
37 Highland Mighty - what a modest name! i think you will find that M/s Cunningham pointed out to Mike Rumbles that this was not an appropriate forum for the questions he was asking and that there was another forum which he, as an experienced politician, was well aware of. How can you respect politicians who go in the huff if they don't get their own way. Well, Rumbles and his colleagues had their own way for years and years supporting NuLab and they would find it difficult to show how they benefitted Scotland.
42

Furchrissake,

07/03/2008 10:54:26
There must be money in them thar hills or Macdonald would not be willing to 'lose' £300,000 a month.
43

Frere Jacques,

Glasgow 07/03/2008 11:01:35
I would have a great deal more sympathy for Mr Macdonald-who I'm quite happy to concede has put together a nice resort at Aviemore-if he hadn't approached politicians, apparently to influence the planning process.

Having done so, he's on shaky ground when those politicians are legitimately held to account.
44

MikeN,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 11:33:34
#4 - Certainly if the US had our planning committees then its urban areas wouldn't be the tacky, tasteless eyesores that they are today
45

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 11:49:11
#28 Huntlylad

"There doesn't seem to be any urgency in the planning process. Do they go for their tea at 5 o'clock?"

I find that quite offensive...public sector planners have a heavier caseload than most professional regardless of their particular sphere; with may dealing with 3/4 times their offical yearly caseload.

The real problem with the planning system isn't so much the staff currently in place, or indeed the regulations, its the severe LACK of planners and other ancillary staff; there's just not enough people to do the job and the government (local and national) simply aren't putting hte funding into to pay for more staff.

That's the core problem, complete under-resourcing, not the system itself...
46

Resolutions,

07/03/2008 11:58:17
#27 Actually the main road A9 by-passes Aviemore so there is no need to go into the place at all unless you want to.
And it is not the dump - it is attracting a lot of conferences and they do not 'go' for dumps.

Six years is a long time for a decision - unacceptable under any circumstances, but it is not the local councillors only. This is a National Park and the hold-up was not caused by the LA or the park authority as far as I can make out.

However back to Rumbles tantrum - as said before the hold up here may need looked at but all those places with a flood problem and its 'management' should be grateful that he was stamped on as this was not the forum to raise a specific question about one small area.

This was petty in the extreme.
47

G,

dundy 07/03/2008 12:09:23
He put his concerns in general terms but he might as well have said..I paid my money, where's my result..

Will the SNP rush to his aid..it's like Trump all over again...
48

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 12:10:39
#41 GP

Seriously, mate, you don't have the first clue what you're talking about...people like you wouldn't last one day as a planner given the pressures involved...
49

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 07/03/2008 12:17:43
We were told only last week of tourism being Scotlands fifth largest earner. So it's not exactly an industry to be scorned.

And, in the same week we had the hue and cry over Harvies comments on Lockerbie which, in a nutshell, condemned it as not a very wellcoming or asperational place. Few could seriously argue with his arguments and it's patently obvious that Scotland has more than its share of blue toons. Of course the weather is a major factor in all this, but that isn't any reason to suppose we cannot add to the numbers who already visit by the right improvements and symathetic developments.

Scotland needs to develope,enhance and evolve its own unique identity and to maximise its recources and allowing timescales of six years between applications and decisions is plainly and irrevocably an anathema to progress.

Delay's of this duration are simply money wasted for all the parties involved, with the exception of the remuneration of the Quango's. We see plenty examples in the revised costs of the M74 link, the Borders line and we will probably see the same effect on the Forth crossing, where already £100m has been spent in consultants fees?

This is one of the issues the SNP Government must get to grips with. Scotland needs major development and the checks and balances must be heard and decided within a difinitive time scale. Even if it means any development which has not been cleared is rejected by default. Too often objections use the tactics of attrition to extend the time - line. It can't be impossible to administer such a system and at least all the parties would know where they stand.

Consultants and bureaucrats have their place but their costs should never be more than 2-3% of the completed project. Anything more and your paying for pie in the sky.
50

Arfur,

07/03/2008 12:33:32
#6 dont be silly, we all know its white with red crosses.
51

Nikostratos,

07/03/2008 12:34:07
#35 Miss H,

Tam from Balmedie said he is not happy.........Although he does own a bath....unlike some who only have a tap and a toilet naming no names..........



#50 Tam said 'Tourist' is a Towny word he calls them 'PESTS'
52

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 12:35:50
Scotland needs development - absolutely...

Should we remove all checks and balances to achieve this at any cost - absolutely not...

Is the system broken - no, on the whole it works, it's just under-resourced...

Should we properly resource the system so it can deal with the volume of applications - absolutely...

Are planners anti-development - no, not at all; they're pro-APPROPRIATE development. Development at any cost is not a good thing and should be resisted. You only need to look at the total number of planning applications REFUSED in Scotland last year to see that planners are principlly pro-development...only about 10% were refused...
53

Arfur,

07/03/2008 12:49:34
#18 Miss Dee - its that kind of stone age thinking that drags Scotland back.

Scotland must be the only country where if someone rich wants to invest in Scotland, create jobs and better the economy we treat them like tur@. Every other country would bite these peoples arms off.
54

Resolutions,

07/03/2008 13:03:43
#53 Pro appropriate development emphasise that again and again and again.

But 6 years wait was not acceptable for anyone.

And Rumbles rumbled in in inappropriate forum.

#Buckpool Loon I do not know how you were unaware of the importance to the economy of tourism to the economy. It has been a major earner for years. (Maybe too long in Cheshire?)

But please note - APPROPRIATE DEVELOPMENT
55

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 07/03/2008 13:04:34
#53 Daibhidh. I think you know I'm not arguing for the nuts and bolts. If it's a question of rescources then they should be found. But, if as I suspect from your posts, you have some inside knowledge or involvment with the system you must also be aware of the costs that can be drained from the public purse before a piece of turf is turned.

Checks and balances, by all means but within a strict time scale on all parties. Otherwise any system will become lethargic to the point of inertia.
56

ejstubbs,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 13:09:47
#13: I think it more likely that Mr McDonald's company is not making the additional £300,000 a month that it expected to do if it had been allowed to go ahead with the development. That's not quite the same as "losing " £300,000 a month. If it were then I would "lose" several million pounds each week my lottery numbers failed to come up. As it is, I'm out a pound a week.
57

Sedov,

Scotland 07/03/2008 13:14:13
38# I would like think that your patronising comments towards me is a concern for my well being. Dont flatter yourself my friend. I have many interests which keep very very happy and you would not recognise me if you met me such is my witty repartee and scintillating conversation. nothing wrong with being bright and merry - but at the same time we have to realise that the things that divide us at present far outweigh the things that divide us and I am trying my best to put this right not just for myself but my fellow man - like yourself. If you want to continue in a fools paradise then go on my friend. This weekend I will be racing motorbikes and attending a bikers rally, getting merry, dancing and making a fool of myself along with my friends. - what are you doing? - .....Never assume.....
58

Neil,

Glasgow 07/03/2008 13:16:18
13 D2 it is possible they are gambling on making £300,000 a month profit when it is built (£3.6 million a year), they will certainly have to.

Which explains why so little does indeed get built here & tourists, though they think our country beautiful, also think it grossly expensive.

That the country survives at all under these ridiculous restrictions shows how successful we could be if free.
59

brownlie,

Glasgow 07/03/2008 13:17:09
53 David
No-one on this thread has suggested that there should be no checks or balances but surely you must agree that six years (some say ten years) is an inordinate length of time for an organisation, irrespective of how under-resourced, to make it's decision. I@m surprised that the media has not pointed out that under-resourcing is the reason for the delay.
60

John south of Soutra,

07/03/2008 13:28:17
It would appear that Scotland is closed for business, I'm sure the Irish would hace had this and the Trump development built by now, but they behave like a country that wants to succeed unlike us
61

GP,

07/03/2008 13:31:58
49# I am not your mate.
And i would last a lot longer than a day why?
because I would actually process the work instead of looking at ways to scive or manipulate the process to hide the facts that they miss their targets.
Awkward or difficult plans get delayed to ensure targets are met.
62

geriatric swampi,

Aberdeen 07/03/2008 13:35:53
Iam amazed at the amount of people who resort to mockery and namecalling when putting over their point of view on websites or in letters to newspapers. I myself have been the victim of this just because I
happen to oppose the Trump developmentatBalmedie.
However there is now a school of thought which concludes that people who mock or namecall do so either
because they are unsure of their own argument or are not intelligent enough to put forward a reasoned and factual case to support their own point of view.
63

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 13:38:02
#60

I agree, 6 years is a long time. But in that six year period, planning responsibily for this development in Aviemore passed to the Cairngorms National Park Authority, the Controlled Activities Regulations (from the EU) became part of Scots law, new flooding regs came in, a new local (park) plan for the area came into being, a masterplan for the development was being prepared, and a whole host of councillors/park members came and went (as did planning officers I'm sure)...not to mention it would appear that Mr MacDonald (who supports the same party as I by the way) didn't provide enough information with his application to allow it to be determined.

Planning is, and needs to be, a complex system (alough I accept it can and will be refined), but our system of government and the EU requires a whole host of issues to be considered - economic, environmental, community etc - all of which take time. This time is then extended when applicant's submit incompetant applications or regulations change during the appraisal process.

Yes, 6 years is way too long, but not all blame lies with the Authorities. While it's not widely broadcast, many of the delays faced in the planning process are down to developers submitting dross or applications void of important details. After much chasing, these details are often received, but only after time has been lost.

The planning system and fundametally its resourcing must be improved, but so must the competancy and apprach of private developers. Remeber, they will cut costs at every opportyunity to maximise their profit; planning is the only thing standing between them and cheapo, damaging development across Scotland...
64

Queen D,

Glasgow 07/03/2008 13:40:00
OK Mr Hard Worked Planner, tell me how long it takes Tesco to get planning permission.
Does it take 6 years and rising ?
Or is it facilitated by brown envelopes?
65

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 13:40:17
...and the media hasn't pointed out under-resourcing is the real issue because it doesn't make a particularly interesting story...and also because neither SEPA nor the Planning Authorities involved want to admit that because it reflects poorly on them (ie. in the case of local authorities, it throws the spotlight on how they distribute their monies)
66

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 13:42:56
#65

Ah, the old 'corruption' chestnut...I think you will find that Tesco a) don't always get consent, and b) when they submit an application they pay a whole design team of people to get it right first time around.

This is not the case with MacDonald Hotels from what I unmderstand, nor is it the case with many other developers.

Mnoey doesn't buy to planning consent, but what it does buy you is a sound team of workers to submit competant application which then require far less toing and froing at the appraisal stage. That's why they are determined more quickly...but not always approved!
67

Phil C,

07/03/2008 14:12:03
Labour & Libdems do indeed show themselves up daily to be small-minded in politics. Almost as bad are those who post here with their out-dated socialist views or equally small-mindedly cheer on anything capitalist.

The SNP have tried, perhaps by necessity, to run a parliament based on consensus. This has to be the right way forward and much of it is common sense. Hopefully the majority of voters are noticing this and the 'wee heids' of Labour & their Libdem poodles will soon be a thing of the past.
68

Incandescent,

07/03/2008 14:14:02
#58 Sedov

Which rally is on this weekend?
69

Clive Hamblin,

Sussex 07/03/2008 14:26:09
Well said # 63 - #32 take note

Debates are not won by such tactics.
70

Resolutions,

07/03/2008 15:02:53
#65 Thanks for the info also other enlightening posts regarding the changing status at Aviemore.

It is true that under-resourcing is a problem in many places, but I've a suspicion that it sometimes becomes 'convenient'. Successful developers and schemes tend to do their homework well, provide the paperwork and work with the various authorites to achieve an outcome acceptable to all. Sometimes successfully;sometimes not.

Occasionally the system fails - everyone appears to have supplied the requirements, but somehow it stalls - badly. And it is not helped by silly tactics from some politicians who maybe should do more 'homework' before spouting forth.

#63 I agree.
71

walter,

07/03/2008 15:16:30
Patience Mr Macdonald your £30.000 investment last May is save, they are working on how to get you permission.
They are preventing SEPA being asked why the have withdrawn their objection so they are working on it.
72

Sanny,

07/03/2008 15:19:11
63 geriatric swampi:

Not entirely true! There are occasions when frustration takes over and can result in giving a name to the frustration. This is particularly true when a contributor has spent time and effort in carefully preparing a logical argument and gets a ill-considered knee-jerk slogan as an answer.

I think you will find that where someone deconstructs the argument and points up its flaws; this is accepted and is to the benefit of both contributors. This is called reasoned debate.

Unfortunately all too many contributors are not only incapable of debate or coherent thought, but are also incapable of constructing a simple sentence.

As a fellow geriatric I sometimes wonder what our children do at school today!

73

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 15:24:02
#71 ..."I've a suspicion that it sometimes becomes 'convenient'."

Can't disagree more I'm afraid. My local area planning office is short-staffed by 3/4 planning officers (if you work out caseload per head), leaving only 4 to carry the can for 8 and operate in a geographical area larger than two or three central authorities put together.

The Council is debating whether they can justify employing ONE additional planner, regardless of 4. That means the existing planners have to deal with not only their own caseload, but the case load of 4 non-existant planners...how can they be expected to deleiver speedy decisions when they have this unbearable caseload?

Then, even if the Councillors and upper management took their heads out of the sand for one moment, there'd be the issue of even being able to find new officers to fill the posts - there's just not enough qualified planners about...

Add to this petty politics and game-playing from elected members (which undermines the whole process and is responsbile for much of the 'inconsistancy' lamented by the public), and things get even worse!

This is a senario found throughout Scotland...

Now, I'm not saying no blame should lie at the door of planning authorities or SEPA etc, it should, but it should be shared by developers as well. While #71 may think developers do their homework well, quite frankly, often they do not. Most have never heard of even half of the Government's policies of guidance, let alone stick to it, and most couldn't produce good, sensitive and sutainable design if their lives depended on it...when was the last time you saw a good, well-designed and well-laid out huosing estate...?!
74

Miss H,

07/03/2008 15:25:14
72 Hey Walter. I can tell you why SEPA withdrew their objection. Because there is no flood risk. They already knew that but it seems to have taken 6 years to process the information.

Still, mustn't grumble eh?
75

HEN BROON 5,

07/03/2008 15:26:35
Labour and the Fibs are an utter disgrace to Scotland and only have the dogmatic interest of their own corrupt parties interest at heart, nothing else.

It becomes rather tiresome, to say the least, to hear Wendy Alexander and Nicol Stephen (The leaders of the Labour Party in Scotland and the Liberal Party in Scotland, pro tem anyway) mouthing off “Broken promises” every time they come within range of a microphone; they never elaborate that much, but the mere repetition of the words is enough. One can imagine their respective spin doctors saying things like, “Just roll it round the mouth, and look aggrieved; nobody will ask any details!”

One thing that they continually forget is that the Parliament lasts for four years, and that not everything happens immediately; in fact when they were in charge, nothing very much happened at all, which is perhaps the source of their chagrin. Now we know that everything will not sail along smoothly, and that some things will not work out; that is the nature of government. What we do know, is that this Scottish Government is a lot smarter than the two previous ones, even if that can be seen as damning the SNP with faint praise.



There are numerous instances of how the “opposition” have been shouting and bawling about a promise being broken, only to be proved wrong, when in the fullness of time, the Scottish Government gets round to that particular issue, and the “opposition” look stupid. I use the word “opposition” in inverted commas, because they are not really an opposition, just a ragbag of individuals trying to score points, and not familiar with joined up thinking.



Cases in point: Iain Gray, Labour Finance spokesman, castigating the SNP for taking away a benefit to the bakery trade, and not even blushing when it was revealed that the benefit had been taken away by the previous administration. (Of all MSPs, he should have known better). Then a great fuss about brain surgery being centralised, whic
76

brownlie,

Glasgow 07/03/2008 15:26:45
72 Walter
Has no-one told you yet that Lab/Lib dem are no longer the Scottish Government?
77

HEN BROON 5,

07/03/2008 15:27:29
Then a great fuss about brain surgery being centralised, which it wasn’t, the Aberdeen Dental School , which will be built, cancer care for children, not being centralised, even the Gorgie Children’s Farm not being closed. Also claims about failures on central heating installations are shown to be lies. (See Synopsis – Christine Grahame MSP)



Some of the things that the Labour leader is stomping about Scotland with are already in the Budget, which she does not seem to have read, and both parties have quite shamelessly cast aspersions on local government, accusing them of neglecting the most vulnerable in society; this has certainly got right up the noses of Labour Councillors in particular, and the local government unions in general. Perhaps Ms Alexander hopes that these memories will have faded by the time the next Holyrood election comes around, as she will be dependant on councillors and union officials to do the donkey work.
http://www.scotsindependent.org/index_p.htm
78

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 15:32:42
75 Miss H

Rubbish! SEPA withdrew their objection in record time following the submission of a flood risk assessment which had not been submitted by the developer...the lack of an assessment was HIS fault and that caused delays, not SEPA's...SEPA turned around a decision is 2 days or something, which is practically unheard of...normally given their staffing levels, you wait 6 weeks!
79

HEN BROON 5,

07/03/2008 15:34:31
You only have to look at the bitterness and bile dripping from Duncan McNeil on the Trumped Inquisition to see how dreadful the whole thing has become.

Make no mistake Liebour and the Fibs will stop at nothing to "get the Nats," and if that means destroying Scotland's reputation as an outward looking business community then that is exactly what they will do.

The only vision they have for Scotland is a tool for their own narrow parochial party political dogma. Thank God we have a government that can out think and out run them on every day of the week.

ALBA GU BRATH.
80

Sanny,

07/03/2008 15:40:11

The standard answer of the Quango is always the same “Short on resources – manpower and finance” but it is rarely true. More like short on Management Skills and Direction!

These Quango’s need to be abolished and the work and responsibility returned where it belongs - the council. If necessary the council can contract out the work to specialists. If a specialist’s performance is tardy then they are not considered for further work.

As a, now retired, Project manager I know the system works well in industry and I see no reason why it shouldn’t work in Public Service. It needs clear planning guidelines and a clearly defined process of decision making. This will quickly identify the problem areas and allow efforts to be concentrated in finding solutions.

If the process has proper traceability then is relatively simple to determine what, where, why and who is responsible for delays. The odd sacking ensures that it rarely happens.
81

G,

dundy 07/03/2008 15:48:37
Sad to see all the SNPites become establishment now they have their snouts in the trough - "Rumbles rumbled in an inappropiate place???" He was asj=king questions and the SNP chair stomped on him -
Sounds like hiding behind protocol and definitiely hiding something....
82

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 15:49:57
Ah, Sanny...wouldn't it be wonderful if it were like that in the public sector? But it ain't!!

The whole problem with the public sector is the democratic accountability element. You cannot operate it like the private sector because you have this layer of politicians to deal with.

Sure, there's dross in local government and some of the quangos, but sectors like planning are over-stretched to the max, while being a vital part of the development process in Scotland. You cannot stick planning in with some of the joke qungos etc that exist(where I agree with you there should be a cull).

As for sacking, sure it would be great to sack a few folk if they under-perform, but we all know how hard it is to sack people in the public sector (overly-active unions, 'democracy' and all the rest)...it's just not as simple as in the private sector...it would also be hard in some cases to prove that their inefficiency is not down to the council framework itself, rahter than their performance...again, yuo don't have that issue in prviate practice...
83

Sanny,

07/03/2008 15:57:05
74 Daibhidh, Edinburgh

I can’t accept that. The companies I have worked for were more than aware of the regulations and took great care to provide all information required to avoid “jobsworths” finding excuses for delaying the programme. Unlike organisations such as SEPA; private industry is driven by costs. They are only too aware of the cost of doing the job properly against the cost of re-works.

My experience of organisations like SEPA (I’ve never had direct dealings with this particular Quango) is that the Staff are often of low technical quality and poorly motivated. When you say you require eight Planners, but only have four. I wonder if three competent Planners could have managed the work. It is quality not quantity that matters.

Perhaps a spell working in industrial environments in places like Australia, the USA, or better still Singapore, might sharpen up your skills in management and give you a Can-Do attitude.
84

brownlie,

Glasgow 07/03/2008 15:59:35
82 G
Would you care to expand on your last paragraph so we could have some idea what you are talking about? Yours "sounds like" is suspiciously similar to Nicol Stephens "Smells like"