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Scots businessmen in bid to resurrect TSB

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Published Date: 02 November 2009
A GROUP of Scottish businessmen is in talks to buy the TSB business from Lloyds Banking Group when it is sold as part of the planned break-up of the company.
The Scotsman has learned that high-level talks are taking place between the businessmen, senior politicians, the Treasury and European Commission officials aimed at relaunching TSB Scotland as an independent Scottish bank.

The development came as Chancellor Alistair Darling announced that the state-controlled banks would be broken up for sale in an effort to improve competition and recoup taxpayers' cash from the bail-out of the sector.

The Chancellor said he wanted to see three new high street banks created within the next few years as Northern Rock, Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds Banking Group are broken up. Reports yesterday said the new banks could include the return of TSB and Williams & Glyn branches to the high street, as well as a so-called BankCo created out of the "good bank" part of Northern Rock.

The "viable" part of the completely nationalised Northern Rock could be sold off by the end of this year, Mr Darling said.

Private investment was also being sought to reduce the taxpayers' exposure to RBS and Lloyds, which are both majority-owned by the state.

Last night a source told The Scotsman: "There are people in Scotland looking into the TSB proposal. The idea is to resurrect TSB Scotland. They want the right to use the TSB name nationwide."

The Scotsman understands the bid may be headed by Ben Thomson of the Noble Group, an investment bank. No-one from the group was available to confirm this last night.

The new bank would effectively take over the 185 branches of Lloyds TSB Scotland that Lloyds is expected to forfeit as one of the conditions for accepting state aid.

A source said that senior politicians and officials had been alarmed by an article in The Scotsman last week detailing Lloyds' plans to switch its Scottish customers over to Bank of Scotland, fearing this would devalue the Lloyds TSB Scotland business that they want the banking group to sell.

As a result, the European Commission is understood to be considering appointing an official to oversee the Lloyds TSB operation and head off any effort to hive off the Lloyds customers to Bank of Scotland.

TSB was launched in Scotland in 1810 and in 1995 was acquired by Lloyds in a controversial takeover that prompted a campaign of opposition. Lloyds included the TSB name in the parent group's title, ensuring it lived on.

Officials and politicians steering the break-up talks are believed to be leaning towards allowing two non-banks and one established bank – probably National Australia Bank, which owns Clydesdale – to come into the market to improve competition.

An announcement on the future of Lloyds Banking Group is expected tomorrow. The Scotsman has learned that the European Commission will appoint a trustee to oversee Lloyds TSB Scotland and ensure its sale is not hampered by any running down of its business.

The trustee, described as a "banking policeman", will protect the assets of the bank.

Mr Darling's acceptance of the move by the EC to increase competition in Britain's banking sector appears to be a change of heart from last year when he forced through the sale of HBOS to Lloyds, with the new superbank then being mostly taken over by the government. Competition laws were overruled to allow the merger and there was fierce criticism over the dominant position the new Lloyds Banking Group would have in the market.

Under the proposals set to be announced by Mr Darling this week, RBS looks set to lose its English branches which would be renamed Williams & Glyn, a bank that was taken over in the 1980s. RBS would also lose its NatWest branches.

RBS's insurance arm, which includes the Churchill, Direct Line and Green Flag brands, would also be put up for sale.

This has raised questions about up to 1,600 jobs in Glasgow where RBS's insurance business is mostly based.

Lloyds is set to lose TSB, Cheltenham & Gloucester and Intelligent Finance.

Mr Darling insisted that there would be "no fire sale" of banking assets and that he expected the parts to be sold off in the next three to four years, maximising the return.

He also indicated that he did not want existing big players such as Barclays or HSBC to buy up the released assets, expecting newcomers in the market.

He did not rule out bids from Tesco's new finance arm, Virgin Money or the National Bank of Australia, which currently owns the Clydesdale Bank and has emerged as a strong contender. Other bidders may come from the United States and Middle East.

There is speculation that Tesco would buy up BankCo from Northern Rock, while Richard Branson's Virgin would take on Lloyds' Cheltenham & Gloucester and Intelligent Finance operations.

Mr Darling said: "What you really want to do is to have quite a substantial divestment, perhaps branches or perhaps particular institutions that they own, made available to other people.

"Because unless we get competition, we are going to end up with half a dozen big providers which would be a big reduction in choice and that would not be acceptable."

He added that he wanted to see more "boring banks" run by "Captain Mainwaring" type bank managers and an end to the "exciting practices" which led to the recent crisis.

With a timescale of sales over the next four years, the decision could finally rest in the hands of a new Conservative Westminster government.

Shadow financial secretary Mark Hoban said: "It is vital that the government does not simply sell off the taxpayers' shareholding to the highest bidder without considering the wider implications for a competitive, healthy banking sector."

John McFall, the Labour chairman of the Commons Treasury select committee, warned the government must take its time to ensure it got the best price and leave itself with enough time to change the culture of the institutions from the destructive risk-taking which led to the banking crisis.

Holyrood finance secretary John Swinney said the Scottish Government's focus was on maximising jobs.

Both RBS and Lloyds have refused to comment on the latest developments. However, the British Bankers' Association, which represents high street banks, said the announcement was "neither unexpected nor surprising".

A spokesman said: "The UK has a highly competitive retail banking sector already offering greater customer choice than in many other countries. The BBA has always welcomed competition for high street banking services and choice for customers."

HISTORY OF NATIONAL INSTITUTION

THE Trustee Savings Bank, or TSB, was a British financial institution which specialised in accepting savings deposits from the poor.

The first trustee savings bank was set up by Reverend Henry Duncan of Ruthwell in Dumfries-shire for his poorest parishioners in 1810.

By 1818 there were 465 savings banks in Britain, including 182 in Scotland.

The Trustee Savings Bank Association was established in 1887 to help the individual banks co-operate and to advise on common matters.

Between 1970 and 1985, the various trustee savings banks in the UK were amalgamated into the TSB Group Plc, which was floated on the London Stock Exchange.

In 1995, the TSB merged with Lloyds Bank to form Lloyds TSB, at that point the largest bank in the UK by market share. In 2009, following the acquisition of HBOS, Lloyds TSB became Lloyds Banking Group.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 02 November 2009 5:58 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lloyds TSB
 
1

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

01/11/2009 21:48:15
No surprises, predicted this months ago. LTSB Scotland has always been held as a separate plc within Lloyds, with its own sort code.

C&G is also no surprise.

The dog that isn't barking right now is whether they will sell off Widows or Clerical Medical.
2

Justin Timbercake,

01/11/2009 22:58:37
Can't Alex Neil get involved and sort out this mess?

Actually...............what happened to him?

Was he demoted after his lamentable attempts to buy out HBOS?
3

Cynicus Unbound,

01/11/2009 23:20:04
AARGH!

The Dynamic Duo strike again.

Cynicus left in the role of The Joker.
4

Justin Timbercake,

01/11/2009 23:27:57
Cynicus, I must say.................you need to raise your game.
5

Andrew Horton,

02/11/2009 00:11:26
Intelligent Finance is very dependent on the Halifax, it's not much more than a front-end to Halifax accounts. The same can be said for St James's Place Bank, essentially a rebranded Intelligent Finance for rich people. I'm sure the front-end can be moved to a new back-end such as Virgin Money, but it will take a lot of time and money.
6

Andrew Horton,

02/11/2009 00:13:36
There may also be legal implications for those currently with an IF or SJPB account.
7

Aberdeenshire Creepy Scot,

02/11/2009 00:13:38
Headline from Clydebank Post.

"17 year old mother of 4 arrested for shoplifting"
8

Brianwci,

02/11/2009 00:15:03
This is a promising start, all the more so if the Noble group is involved.
9

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 02/11/2009 00:15:36
I thought this was all sewn up before the offer was on the Table? Labour are using TESCO for international political opportunity and TESCO get the good bits of the TSB! Mr Branson gets the good bits of Northern Rock! We get taken to the cleaners by all and sundry again.
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 02/11/2009 00:40:38

Independant Scottish Bank, the believing will be is the seeing, it will be truly fantastic and one of a miracle, if it takes place.

11

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 02/11/2009 00:50:45
I reiterate: I'm not interested in your competition; I want COMPETENCE and SERVICE. FM doesn't create money out of nothing then phish it away; we build in alu, steel, wood and carbon composities which have to be paid for. I want one bank to handle out company account and international transactions; not to be traipsing about hither and thither. Interest rates should be set at a fair and reasonable level nae going up and down like a hoor's dra'ers. Yours not very happy,

YF, Finbar Marine
12

Am Fògarrach,

02/11/2009 01:13:48
1 Group Captain Lionel Mongoose

Hello AM2. Apparently you believe you are Scotland's modern Brahan Seer.
13

Unelectedbythepeople,

UK 02/11/2009 01:21:53
As Mr Brown and Mr Darling told us WE ARE IN EXCELLENT SHAPE THANKS TO MY PRUDENT AND GLOBAL LEADING INITIATIVES: Er well maybe that is a no Mr Brown as the Times is reporting:

Britain’s public finances are in such a dire state that the Government will need to implement an additional £350 billion of spending cuts and tax increases over the next five years, at great cost to the economy, a leading economist will warn today.

Roger Bootle, economic adviser to Deloitte, will say that Britain’s public finances are in the “worst shape for at least half a century” and warn that the country faces “the tightest squeeze on public spending for a generation”.

But hey you will always be remembered as the man who destroyed the UK, ruined the economy, voted to start illegal wars and sent his wife out to speak up for you and fight for you - aye quite a man a real role model for so many in the poverty stricken labour strongholds that have got poorer as the rest of the world gets richer and more educated more healthy and smarter - well done Labour........................
14

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 02/11/2009 02:46:08
#7 Creepy

Headline from Clydebank Post.

"17 year old mother of 4 arrested for shoplifting"

Kind of illustrates the end result of what 50 years of voting for Labour does to a country.

Can anyone please explain how the current state of affairs of the banks being broken up and sold is better than if the banks had been put into bankruptcy and broken up and sold at the beginning of this mess?

The only difference I can see is that the bondholders have gotten away clean while the Taxpayer has gotten an 800 Billion Pound bill.
15

Letters From Muscat,

edinburgh 02/11/2009 04:42:25
Fascinating posts. I like the terminology... front end of banks and back end. The Tory boy Edmond or whatever his name is was quite right yesterday on the box saying it's ok so long as the taxpayer does not end up with the 'ahem back end of the organisation. And the big boys walk off with the very profitable parts. Who is going to regulate this current mess? I'll just have to move my millions to Coutts in the Strand. Shurely they'll be untouchable down there? Or under the bedding.
16

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 02/11/2009 04:42:44
We had to get our subsiduary AAF to build an annex to our design studio to store all our completed ship plans. We have computers too but data on CD can come to grief as when our financial guru Fraser MacGregor spotted the trollydolly on the Wick train and the disc slipped aff his hand, took a low flyer and was crushed under the trolly wheel.

The £2 billion "small change" than recently leaked from the Lloyd's Rusty Bucket Bonk could not only have built our ain back catalog of ships but awbody else's too. We'd be the new global super-power !!
17

Sonare,

02/11/2009 06:26:02
...all it will take now is another stock market drop like the collapse of a few months ago and we become even more of a poor nation ... but we will be unable to borrow our way out this time ... and industrial unrest will heighten ... banking shuffles may mean nothing ...
18

Ranald Newal,

02/11/2009 07:40:17
Wow positive thinking.
You can’t beat this state of mind.
Can do will try is positive action.
I say we don’t need those being negative over the actions of these business men.
19

Ranald Newal,

02/11/2009 08:02:19
KampungHighlander@14,02:46:08
-----------------------------
Economics mean nothing when looking at the cold hard facts.
You’ve got to add humanity to the mix.
Recessions are shorter when left to run their course, though people suffer.
People suffer when banks are allowed to become bankrupt too.
Economics is useless when the people suffer great hardship.
Humanity is a positive in a world of cold figures.
I'm with the positive side of humanity every time.
Go humanity.
20

cabrach loon,

inverness 02/11/2009 08:08:31
sell us back Bank of Scotland please, NOT TSB
21

Ugly George,

02/11/2009 08:21:48
14 kampungHighlander
"Can anyone please explain how the current state of affairs of the banks being broken up and sold is better than if the banks had been put into bankruptcy and broken up and sold at the beginning of this mess?"

I am not saying that I necessarily subscribe to the argument but I think it goes something like this:

RBS, HBOS, Lloyds etc. had become "to big to fail" The feeling was that if one or all of these institutions went bust the ramifications for the overall economy would have been disastrous in terms of destruction of asset base, liquidity etc.

The tactic appears to be consolidate them and then break them up into smaller units so that if one of them does fail, the consequences on the overall economy will not be severe.
22

Dode415,

02/11/2009 08:32:36
How much has this incompetent government cost us by forcing through the merger of HBOS and Lloyds against all competition concerns only to break it all up a few months later on competition concerns - unbelievable!
23

,

02/11/2009 08:33:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

Guy Wersh,

02/11/2009 08:47:57
Yok Finney:
Completely OT but thanks for the fascinating insights into the shipbuilding business and how it relates to the economy.
25

noswod,

Honestas 02/11/2009 08:48:24
Are this "Group of Scottish Businessmen" friends of Fred ?? or Friends of the the Pheonix 4 (Rover). What these guys are looking for is to buy a cheap bank screw it and then sell it on for a fortune before it goes bust. Beware the sarkers
26

Ggordon,

02/11/2009 09:11:34


Nationalise those banks nearly there. Then only gov guarantee these banks

Let the rest, of the banks, go their own way.


Still no proper gov, banking regulation, has been put in place

UK Gov waiting for the election, which Labour know they will lose, until the situation can be sorted out.

Election now

27

Ggordon,

02/11/2009 09:20:36

When BOE regulation was in place. BOE used interest rate, (up, down) to use money supply to control credit.

Economy over-heating with too much credit, raised interest rate, to discourage people, businesses taking more credit. Brought stability back, then lowered interest rates, to encourage growth.
28

The Strategist,

02/11/2009 09:21:30
Increasing competition in banking will lead to the greater availability of mortgages which in turn will increase demand for houses and push house prices back up.

What would be a much more intelligent move would be if Brown allowed house price inflation to be part of the Consumer Price Index so that the BoE could take it into account when setting interest rates. This would allow house price inflation to be kept under control.
29

Ggordon,

02/11/2009 09:23:56

Brown, who of course abolished 'boom and bust', took BOE regulation away. Unfortunately with no proper regulation the Banks went bust.

Brown abolished 'boom and bust' for just 'bust'. Took out the 'boom' and left the 'bust'. A busted flush
30

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 02/11/2009 09:50:45
TSB has always been a lousy bank, let the waste of space rest in peace.
31

Barney Thomson,

Reading 02/11/2009 10:04:49
#15 Letters from Muscat

You'll be aware that Coutts is a wholly-owned subsidiary of RBS?
32

Mrs Broon,

Scotland 02/11/2009 11:08:09
It is of concern to me that the Labour Government in it's death throes is quite willing to destroy the Nations of Scotland and England to make thing so bad for the in-coming Government. It is petty but then that is way with Gordon Brown.
I have no problem with returning the TSB back to Scotland where it was one of our success stories before it was amalgamated into Lloyds, perhaps we can have the British Linen Bank back as well, I left a pound in an account there back in 1964, must be worth something now!
33

Fairfax,

02/11/2009 11:33:49
KampungHighlander (14): "Can anyone please explain how the current state of affairs of the banks being broken up and sold is better than if the banks had been put into bankruptcy and broken up and sold at the beginning of this mess?"

Some banks were broken up, and some of them were sold, at the beginning of this mess, and some of them were put into bankruptcy. The only reason for not following this through last year was, I think, the fear of systemic collapse. This is not to exonerate Brown's execrable government: if he had not pressured Lloyds to attempt to assimilate HBOS, then Lloyds might not have had to be essentially nationalized.
34

Ranald Newal,

02/11/2009 11:34:26
Dode415@22,08:32:36
-------------------
Positive action has to be seen for what it is, positive.
35

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 02/11/2009 11:39:56
This is good news - unless Goodwin's involved - as has been rumoured.
36

Fairfax,

02/11/2009 11:41:31
Ugly George (21): "RBS, HBOS, Lloyds etc. had become "to big to fail" The feeling was that if one or all of these institutions went bust the ramifications for the overall economy would have been disastrous"

Agreed, and not merely for our own economy. RBS was the largest company on the planet, by asset worth, in late 2008, and its demise would have presumably caused even more problems than that of Lehman's.

"The tactic appears to be consolidate them and then break them up into smaller units so that if one of them does fail, the consequences on the overall economy will not be severe."

There's also the advantage that the new institutions can begin life uncontaminated by toxic assets. Much though I despise this government, this particular policy is fairly sensible.
37

Gorach,

Deacon Brodies 02/11/2009 11:52:38
Aye this is promising..good news indeed.

The government would be wise to see this through and bring some positive emotion back to Scotland.

Best wishes to TSB Scotland....
38

Ranald Newal,

02/11/2009 12:04:12
Scottish and Still Proud@23,08:33:12
------------------------------------
Being of a positive mind places you in a better position for coping with things as they happen.
Being of a positive mind however doesn’t stop negative things from happening to you.
Coping with a recession and coming out of one are not always the same, even though coming out of one shows you’ve coped enough to leave it behind.
Looking at a chart showing growth over the recession so far I got the impression on trend alone things are progressing.
I’m thinking two quarters at the maximum before the end of recession.
I would say the real interest comes after this when comparing what the countries who had been in recession are doing.
39

Jo Public,

02/11/2009 12:32:50
From a story we are not allowed to comment on.

"FRAUD investigators have launched a crackdown in Edinburgh as they revealed a woman was found to be claiming £64,000 of housing benefit – when her partner was the landlord.

The case of 36-year-old Nicola Smeaton – who was last week sentenced to 240 hours of community service – was one of the biggest benefit frauds of its kind in Edinburgh"

Proof of the double standards we have. MPs get off with this kind of thing
40

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/11/2009 12:37:01
Why is no-one suggesting that TSB (Scotland) be returned, for nothing, to its rightful owners - its clients?

This would be the ideal solution to atone for Thatcher's theft. Unfortunately, I don't see her love-child Brown's moral compass pointing in that direction.
41

The Strategist,

02/11/2009 12:47:07
The idea of having an independent Scottish bank is an excellent idea. As a consequence it will almost certainly be politically unacceptable to Westminster.
42

Jo Public,

02/11/2009 12:59:18
#42. A wondeful idea. Let's all put our money into it if it happens.
43

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 02/11/2009 13:03:29
#19 Ranald Newal

"Humanity is a positive in a world of cold figures.
I'm with the positive side of humanity every time.
Go humanity."

In the style of your alter Ego, Ewan Randall:

When it becomes a choice between whether the Bondholder or the innocent Taxpayer takes a bath on this which side is the "Humanity" side?

#21 Ugly George

Perhaps "to big to fail" is just to big. The consolidation of the Banking Industry (which the Lloyds/HBOS merger made worse) has allowed the institutions to become to big for the health of the economy. Since these institutions now seem to be immune from the market discipline of failure it brings up serious questions about how they are to be regulated.

#34 Fairfax

"This is not to exonerate Brown's execrable government: if he had not pressured Lloyds to attempt to assimilate HBOS, then Lloyds might not have had to be essentially nationalized."

It is obvious now to everyone that the prime motivation to do this was political and not economic.
44

Andrew_10101,

(Off Topic) 02/11/2009 13:59:22
As we are so close to Nov 5th, can we please substitue poor old Guy Fawkes (who must have been burnt enough by now) with the effigies of a few merchant bankers in suits instead? We could equip them with each with a cardboard 'Blackberry', and a suitcase for their city bonuses. Of course, we'd have to have a competition to name the effigies based on the amount of mahem that they had each caused, and their role in precipitating the Credit Crunch plus the general meltdown of our current banking system.

I would then happily drop a few coins into my TSB piggy bank each and every autumn to save up for another banker-burning day celebration.
45

,

02/11/2009 14:58:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
46

Ranald Newal,

02/11/2009 16:06:12
KampungHighlander@44,13:03:29
-----------------------------
Sorry to disappoint you, I’m not looking at your negative view point.
I see the benefit to both the bondholder and the taxpayer, not to mention those who’ve deposited their money in the banks.
Someone has already tried the Ewen Randall gag on me a number of days ago, and I take it in good humour.
It's all about looking at the positive.

 
  

 
 


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