Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Tuesday, 7th October 2008

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the Edinburgh Evening News site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Tram works 'turned street into a river' claim residents



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 02 August 2008
TRAM works have been blamed for severe flooding on Shandwick Place after the street was turned into "a river" amid this week's torrential downpours.
Contractors removed a drain from the western end of the road, and the two remaining drains on either side of Somerfield failed to cope with the torrential rain.

Over a foot of water flooded the street following Tuesday's freak cloudburst which saw several millimetres of rain fall in under an hour. Council planners blamed the flooding on a "one in 100 year" event.

However, several inches of rainwater gathered again at the western pedestrian crossing during yesterday's relatively moderate downpours.

One long-standing resident said that the road has experienced similar downpours in the past but has never flooded.

Michael Watson, 40, an IT contractor, said: "I've lived here for 17 years and I've never seen the street turn into a river before.

There's a dip in the road outside the front entrance to the stairway where the water eventually gathered, and it didn't disappear for over 12 hours."

Neighbour David Mackie complained to tram company TIE about the flooding. He said: "It appears that the existing drains have been removed from, amongst other locations, outside my house at the pedestrian crossing opposite Stafford Street."

Walter Giudice, manager of neighbouring La Piazza restaurant, said that workers on site were warned the removal of the drains would cause problems.

He added: "We told them not to remove the drain months ago as the next nearest one is 100 yards up the road, but they insisted one was enough."

In response to complaints by residents, city centre councillors David Beckett and Joanna Mowat are demanding immediate action to rectify the problem.

Ms Mowat said: "Whilst I can accept that there has to be disruption and general inconvenience as a part of putting the tram in, I didn't realise that we were signing up to flooding people's houses."

Meanwhile, Councillor Beckett was also unconvinced that Tuesday's flooding was a freak event and called on TIE to take responsibility for their actions.

He added: "We are being told the flooding was caused by a once in a century meteorological event. I wonder then if we can expect Noah to be sailing down Princes Street anytime soon."

Michael Apter, owner of Paper Tiger on Stafford Street and chairman of the West End Traders Association, said none of his affiliated businesses reported any interruption in trade. However, the downpour happened shortly after 6pm when most of the shops would have been closed.

A TIE spokesman confirmed that they were investigating the incident in conjunction with their contractors Carillion, who were responsible for the utility diversions. He added: "We are confident that none of the work we carried out in the area recently could have been responsible for any flooding."

The full article contains 476 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 02 August 2008 10:23 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh transport plans
 
1

Dileas,

02/08/2008 11:10:24
So we had a "once in a hundred years" event twice in a week while tie were messing about with the road drainage!

Is there no limit to tie's spin and outright lies?

The only thing that they are good at is in withholding information from the public and gradually drip-feeding bad news to the people who will end up paying for their mistakes. We should be better informed of the downside to the trams - they are good enough at shouting its praises, untrue though it may be!
2

bluehead,

edinburgh 02/08/2008 11:21:55
the curse of Edinburgh is on us again,what a disaster the city has become,it's like a gigantic building site,it's like a shanty town of concrete boxes
poor auld Edinburgh!!!!
3

alex paterson,

edinburgh 02/08/2008 12:07:04
While waiting on the trams,please feel free to use our rowing boats.
4

Douglas,

Bathgate 02/08/2008 12:21:42
The UN is organising a drop of paddles for Edinburgh residents who find themselves without one as the town turns into 5h1t Creek.
5

Jenny MacArthur,

02/08/2008 12:23:11
Och, the whole world is turning to ruin! Despair! Woe woe woe! It's shocking. It's terrible. It's dreadful.

Or, to put it another way, don't some people just love to moan!! Makes the nasty darlings to happy.
6

Council Insider,

On A Tram Fact Finding Mission 02/08/2008 12:23:53
Yes I agree the heavy rain was the fault of tie. No shops or homes were ever flooded before this tram scheme started. Yawn Yawn. Another free advert for some businesses.
7

Charles MN,

02/08/2008 12:38:19
#7 No, its the fact that TIE reduced the drainage capacity on this street that is the problem. Who is monitoring what TIE are doing?
8

eveninglies,

02/08/2008 12:49:04
What a pointless story this is ! .
After the very heavy showers during the week there were many streets around Edinburgh where the drains were not able to cope for a short time.
It is NO SURPRISE that a road that is being worked on should be even more prone to this!
For instance the junction at Willowbrae Rd / Duddingston road was flooded in a recent heavy shower while the roadworks were still there.

The CONSTANT moaning in this paper that everything bad is because of the trams is really becoming tiresome!

It has reached the point where most of the anti tram comments on this site are simply people wishing to join in the joke.
The Evening News coverage of this subject has indeed become A JOKE .
9

Disgruntled Black cab customer,

02/08/2008 12:54:33
#8 Its not constant moaning, its 90% of Edinburgh residents upset that our once beautiful city has been turned into a building site for the sake of a white elephant that a very small minority want.

I was once proud of my city now I'm embarresed.

Another point, when was it agreed Shandwick place was to become access for Buses and Black taxis only?
10

Statsman,

Edinburgh 02/08/2008 13:00:13
TIE remove drains. This causes flooding.

Why is this difficult for the Pro-Tram types to understand?

In other news, an alternative design is to be used for the tram:

http://i.pbase.com/o6/99/380799/1/37088389.c7IurbqP.FLOATINGTRAM.jpg
11

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 02/08/2008 13:01:03
Margo MacDonald led the attempt to have this stupid tram system built - against the sensible SNP. So Edinburgh, live with it. The rest of us in Scotland have been deprived of a lot to pay for your wonder so just be quiet and enjoy it.
12

JT,

02/08/2008 13:04:44
Its not just Shandwick Pl that got flooded. We saw before our eye on Tues Gorgie Road between Robbie Ave and Balgreeen Road was turned into a rain swimming pool where under the rail bridge was over a foot deep right across and sainbury's closed due to flooding. Alot of the drivers went thru at normal speed sending big arches of water over people. The city;s roads are shambolic and this proves that the council only care about tourist and trams not the residents who have to deal with this rubbish everyday. Time to get the basics right.
13

Boy Wonder,

02/08/2008 13:07:52
Instead of 800 bikes, can we not have boats for the forseeable future?
14

Disgruntled Black cab customer,

02/08/2008 13:08:01
#11 the whole of scotland is being deprived of a lot because of these trams, u want them? u have them!!!
15

AndyPandy,

02/08/2008 13:42:38
Apparently TIE and the trams are also to blame for the solar eclipse this week which plunged many parts of the world into total darkness, causing transport chaos on an unprecedented scale.
16

Jams,

Edinburgh 02/08/2008 13:45:06
A developer constructing new works is generally required to design his new drainage to cope with a 1 in 200 year flood situation. This is yet another example of how the council are letting TIE do pretty much whatever they want just so long as they get their precious trams.

Who else gets to knock down listed buildings, remove 100 year old trees and the like without going through a lengthy hoop jumping process which includes giving large sums of money to the council ?
17

The Judge,

02/08/2008 13:49:21
1. Did Shandwick Place regularly flood during heavy rain before the tramLINE works began?

2. Did the TIE workman remove any drain covers or block any drains?

If you can answer those questions you'll know who is to blame for the flooding.

Anyway Mr Gallagher told us this week the tramLINE is going to be "fabulous" so who are we to argue with that.

Any of the newshounds at EEN towers found out about the wrong pipe yet?
18

eveninglies,

02/08/2008 14:10:59
Trams are bad bad bad
Taxi drivers bad bad bad
Bus drivers bad bad bad

same old stuff
19

Vivas,

Edinburgh 02/08/2008 14:18:34
Shoddy workmanship, shoddy journalism, shoddy council response !

To TIE: Since when/why would any street need LESS drainage than it had before ? Cowboys.

To the journalists: "Tuesday's freak cloudburst which saw several millimetres of rain fall in under an hour." Freak ? It was a thunder downpour in mid-summer for gods sake. Another piece of myopic global warming reporting by a probably 20-something journo who would report a snowflake as a freak blizzard presumably. And "millimetres" is what you would get from a staedy drizzle...he obviously should have meant "centimetres" and could have obtained the actual figure from met-office sources had he bothered.

To Council planners: who blamed the flooding on a "one in 100 year" event. They're also riding the global warming excuse train. In my almost half-century of existence I've seen this kind of downpour here too many times to mention. I recall one time in the 80's when West-Princes street gardens was rapidly transformed into a lake with dozens of wooden seats bobbing about.

Sympathy to the residents, but TIE, the EEN and Council Planners are shown here as a bunch of incompetents.
20

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 02/08/2008 14:20:57
#18. Eveninglies. Why not read another paper?? Complaining about content continually, even making a name up based on it is truly strange behaviour. It's the festival (you may have seen that in the paper) go out and get a life.
21

Ghostface Killah,

Seafield 02/08/2008 14:41:33

#5 - did someone leave your cake out in the rain?
22

Liam,

02/08/2008 15:56:58
I do believe the whinge brigade on the Evening News has now officially exhausted every possible "let's blame the trams" angle ... but I have to admit, blaming them for the elements is an unexpected one. There appears to be no end to the ingenuity of the anti-trams hysterics.
23

The Sheriff,

02/08/2008 17:05:57
Surprised gorgie tony aint on here blaming the car drivers.
24

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 02/08/2008 17:09:24

Rain makes puddle. Slow news day? Molehill makes mountain.

Tram river blither - no thanks.

#18 not quite. It goes like this:

Buses, taxis, cars, amphibious landing craft = good

Trams = bad.
25

,

02/08/2008 17:54:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

Matt there,

somewhere 02/08/2008 18:26:12
Yes, Vivas. We used to call them a cloudburst. Now it is global warming.
27

Farmernot,

02/08/2008 18:36:48
Drown the Trams.......brilliant !!!!!!!!!!!!
28

pjbhoy,

Glasgow 02/08/2008 18:51:26
Why are so many people trying to decry Edinburgh's proposed tram system.

I think it will be great and more of them should be introduced in other towns and cities in Scotland.

Cities with a successful transport infrastructure always have an integrated bus and tram network.

In era were car ownership is at a very high level there must be an alternative that will reduce congestion and pollution.
29

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 02/08/2008 19:34:19

EDINBURGH DISRICT COUNCIL NEWS FLASH!!!

Small 'Paddle Boats' and Canoe's available for hire at exorbitant rates when required to save life's!!


Boy Wonder, excluded!
30

Plantagenet,

02/08/2008 19:49:07
Underwater trams? I'd love to buy a ticket for Jenny MacArthur to go in one of them.
31

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 02/08/2008 21:23:57
Edinburgh (or the central belt of Scotland) always seem to have one or two days of monsoon rain at this time of the year - 16 years ago (1994), a Sunday cycling event through the city centre was hit by torrential rain.

A couple of years ago, the rain was so heavy, that the car showroom on Balcarres Road was very nearly flooded by surface water that hadn't drained way fast enough.
One of the neighbours was scared enough to have placed boards across the bottom of the front door.

If drains have been installed, they probably have been installed for a purpose, and not just as a decorative feature.
32

,

02/08/2008 21:59:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

pjbhoy,

glasgow 02/08/2008 22:28:38
#31 What is so ignorant about improving public transport?

Yes Edinburgh does have a good bus service but the proposed tram service will compliment that.

In addition, the buses operating on the existing bus service (which will be replaced by the trams) will be utilised elsewhere.

And another thing you racist – Why bring African monkey countries into it?

This clearly shows you have no debating skills.
34

pjbhoy,

glasgow 02/08/2008 22:29:29
Sorry #31 - That was meant for #32
35

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 03/08/2008 00:04:41
#33 - it is clear like most pro-tram commentators you have not undertaken any real research on this proposal.

The Edinburgh tramline will not compliment (sic) the existing bus service. A number of services which do not follow the tram route will be cut, forcing customers to take 2 or more buses when one previously did. Other services are planned to have their frequency reduced. However, amongst the biggest concerns is that the business plan for the tram line is...garbage. Lothian Buses current profitability will be massively impaired by the tram line (read it - it is in the business plan.) Ongoing subsidy will be required to cover the costs of operating the tram line, a subsidy which will have to come from bus fares. This is especially likely given the current Waterfront development must be seen as in serious doubt. Furthermore, the drain on Lothian Buses will reduce the dividend currently paid to the council (which means an increase in Council Tax is a probability to cover the deficit) and impair its ability to invest in new buses, which means older, less efficient and environmentally dirtier buses more prone to breakdown.

When you take the time to actually research this project, it is amazing that it ever got the go ahead. The minute someone said it was going to cost £600m+ for one line it should have been scrapped.
36

pjbhoy,

royston, glasgow 03/08/2008 00:52:11
#35 You're talking absolute nonsense and you know it.

The tram service will directly replace one bus service. It may impact on other existing bus services on the Leith Walk corridor but a 120-seater tram replacing some 70-seater buses is a more than sufficient replacement.

As for dirtier less environmentally friendly buses, do you think the bosses will decide to stop maintaining and cleaning buses because of the trams?

I think its more a case of short term pain long term gain.
37

tumshie heid,

03/08/2008 01:01:37
#36 Where are you going to find 120 people that want to travel to Leith?There aren't any shops left.
The trams are the greatest joke that has ever been played on Scotland.
At least the parliament building serves a purpose unlike the trams which are an expensive way of replacing a perfectly good number 22 bus service.
38

AdamKC666,

Bruntsfield 03/08/2008 04:05:24
The rain recently was impressive. Viewforth was a river. A major road like Shandwick Place is not draining well then it should be addressed and not ignored cos TIE have secret plan to fleece the city. As for banning cars from shandwick place...car drivers had chance to have congestion charge. They said no. Edinburgh is very easily shut down by traffic (even then 22 bus). deal with it. Its on your own heads.
39

SPG,

edinburgh 03/08/2008 11:56:49
Mbra: Venice of the north
40

rs,

in ma house 03/08/2008 17:51:32
torrential downpours or even "normal rain" causes floods in Edinburgh.

Much of it is caused by

i) the fact that water does not run up hills, given the location of many drains.

ii) Many drains are blocked - 2 reasons

a) they are never regularly cleaned
b) Contractors use them for flushing all there "waste" down, result they get chocked.

I seen downpours like this before, remember going through oxgangs, water was coming up throught the drain covers.

Rain isn't a new thing to Edinburgh.

41

rs,

in ma house 03/08/2008 17:55:28
Tram Capacity

Modern Double deck bus
seating 84 + 20 standing = 104

Tram
seating 80 + 170 standing = 250

Now what has more seats, yet a trams is goinf to be some 40m+ long

Can someone explain why the Trams will need subsidised, when all the Capital Costs have been paid up front by the Scottish Taxpayer?
42

Julian.,

edinburgh 04/08/2008 01:27:36
#28 pjbhoy,

"Cities with a successful transport infrastructure always have an integrated bus and tram network."

How about London...or New York?

#9 Disgruntled Black cab customer,

90% of residents didn't want this "white elephant"
mmmmm, must have missed that poll. Who was it carried out by?



43

Julian.,

edinburgh 04/08/2008 01:34:51
#41 rs,

If those running the trams aren't required to pay back capital costs then they probably won't need subsidised.

GRAEMEH,

And where exactly did you get the information that lothian buses plan to cut more services than the 22? in 3 years time?
44

rs,

in ma house 04/08/2008 09:51:14
43 JULIAN

From the various articles I thought that the £500m from the Scottish Government was a no repayable capital grant towards line 1a.

Comments about the tram business case have always talked about a subsidy being required from the buses.

Maybe Sarah B, could clarify this point
45

Skip McClendon,

04/08/2008 11:14:16
Will the missing drains be replaced before (or if) the trams eventually start running in 2063?

DO trams like great big pools of water? Are these "world class" trams also amphibious?
46

Skip McClendon,

04/08/2008 11:25:20
...and while I've got my anti-TIE hat on, has anyone else clocked the current shambles at Haymarket with regard to pedestrian crossings?

Big red and white barriers blocking all but one of the crossings in the area. And then when you try to use that one (near the Haymarket bar), you get half way across the road to find the other side blocked by...a big red and white barrier. Very dangerous for pedestrians around Haymarket at the moment - crossings blocked, inadequate temporary replacements forcing pedestrians to walk in the road etc.
47

eric,

lothian 04/08/2008 11:51:56
Glasgow gets High tch trains and Subway system we get a tramline ,Gee thanks.
48

Julian.,

edinburgh 04/08/2008 16:49:15
rs #44,

I don't know the figures on this one but if the £500m is not to be paid back then they'd have to really b0lls it up to still need a subsidy.

Despite what the Euans and Voldermorts of this world say, everyone knows that those trams are going to be full to the gunnels when they start running. With no £500m to be paid back, they'll be raking it in.
49

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 17:36:21
#43 - From the Business Case.

4.24 "...TEL would plan to significantly reduce bus services on Leith Walk and on the present Airlink service. Limited reductions are planned to bus services operating between St Andrew Square and Haymarket together with some reductions on the Broomhouse to Saughton Mains corridor.
4.25 These service changes will require passengers to change between bus and tram for some journeys previously made on a single bus service."

Full details are not released at this point but it is certain from this that many more routes than the 22 will be affected.

As for your comments re subsidy, the business case shows it will be 2017 before the tram reaches breakeven (ie bus users subsidise tram losses), however this is based on extremely optimistic growth projections (passengers doubling) which is itself linked to development at the Waterfront. Development which must be in doubt. Taking TIE's own Revenue and Risk case for low development, the tram would need a subsidy which could by 2021 exceed £10m per year as the cost of running even this single line is massive. And unlike buses you cannot effectively scale it to demand.

#36 - Everything I say can be backed up. Everything you say is nonsense.
50

Julian.,

edinburgh 04/08/2008 22:31:37
#49,

OK, point taken.

On the point of subsidy, are you including any of the capital costs of the line and tramcar construction or is it just operating costs?

As for your point about the waterfront, much of this is already built and the rest will no doubt follow once the housing market picks up. Remember,the trams are 3 years away, by which time the housing market will be in positiv growth territory again...or I'm a monkey's uncle
51

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 23:11:22
#50 Julian. All capital costs are excluded from the business plan. It also excluded all depreciation of the network cost, no financing cost for the construction and of much more concern all on going refurbishment of the tram units themselves and of the network infrastructure. The tram units will not last forever. Including these last two items makes the business plan even worse. The deficit I state is on recurring operating costs only.

As for the development, the figures are taken directly from the business plan - the low case excludes the current development which is already factored in and includes the likes of much of Granton where construction has not started (and may nver start as planned given massive stock still to be sold elsewhere), expansion of the Gyle area and two new RBS-style developments at Gogarburn. Note this is not a no-growth case - this is a lower growth case which is much more realistic, but itself may be seen as ambitious in the current market.

It is only when you actually take the time to look into how poor the business plan is, and the massive failings of the people charged with delivering it, that you realise how wrong this tram line is.
52

Niadh,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 12:27:34
#48 Julian.

How long do you expect the trams to be 'full to the gunnels'?
I expect most people in the city will have a go just to see what it is like but after the first month or 2 i think you'll find the number drop off quite dramatically.
53

YummyMummy,

07/08/2008 16:07:25
Wow! Theres a few puddles in Leith, just like the rest of Edinburgh. I'm sure they could of pictured a bigger "flood" than the one displayed.

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Today's Vote

Should other roadworks be be halted at this stage of the trams project?
No, repair work on roads is also important
Yes, it’s utter chaos on the city’s roads.
Yes, except in the case of emergencies

Featured Advertising



Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.