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Bus firm to axe routes as bosses' wages soar



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Published Date: 31 July 2008
LOTHIAN Buses are to axe or cut back 16 routes in a bid to help the council-owned firm break even – at the same time as its directors bank inflation-busting pay rises.
A leaked report obtained by the Evening News shows the services are facing the chop by October, many of which serve large swathes of the city's elderly and socially deprived.

Among the services to be axed are the number 13 Blackhall to Lochend and number 20 Wester Hailes to Chesser. The number 18 Gyle to the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary and number 32 Granton to Clovenstone services are among those which will see their frequencies cut.

It comes as the bus company's latest accounts reveal its directors have collected an aggregated 13 per cent pay rise based on record profits of £5.9 million last year. Top earner is chief executive Neil Renilson who has seen his pay rise by ten per cent to £250,000.

Lothian Buses today said the 16 loss-making services cost it more £3m a year and said trimming them was the only way it could break even.

The council-backed company has blamed disruption to services by trams roadworks for a five per cent drop in passenger numbers but is also battling fuel costs. However, it has pledged it will not increase fares again this year.

Council chiefs today said they had no money to step in and subsidise the under-threat services but would look to help the affected communities in other ways.

Ian Craig, managing director of Lothian Buses, said: "The services being cancelled are the biggest loss-makers we run.

"We deeply regret that we are unable to continue cross-subsidising these loss-making but socially necessary bus services."

An emergency meeting of the council's transport committee will meet on Tuesday to discuss the situation. Among the options open to councillors will be putting the axed services out to tender, or to explore sponsorship.

Councillor Phil Wheeler, the city's transport leader, said: "As an arms-length company Lothian Buses operates completely autonomously from the council and the decision to cut or reduce services has been taken by the company on a commercial basis.

"The council has no available provision in its existing budget to provide subsidy."

Accounts released today show that while Mr Renilson's pay rose to £250,000, the overall salary and benefits package for the firm's directors rose from £792,000 in 2006 to £895,000 last year.

The inflation-busting deals are in contrast to the 5.1 per cent rise which bus drivers have secured for the next year. Mr Renilson said: "It's not for me to say whether I'm worth it. It's for other people to judge whether Lothian Buses is delivering value for money, but over the last ten years we've increased passenger numbers by 40 per cent.

"I can't be accused of presiding over a failure ... the remuneration package is in line with what the private sector pays." Lothian Buses' profits rose 20 per cent to £5.9m in 2007, while passenger numbers jumped by 5.6 per cent in the year to 114 million.

• Lothian Buses wants to axe services 13, 20, 60, and Night Buses N11 and N27 by October 5.

• Major cutbacks are planned for the 12, 18, 24, 32, 42, N8, N16, N26, N30, N31 and N44 services.


The full article contains 571 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 11:41:26
It would help if you published a link to the services which are cut or mentioned them in full.
2

,

31/07/2008 11:48:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

Daft Old Git,

31/07/2008 11:54:45
'many of which serve large swathes of the city's elderly and socially deprived.'....Who'd want to get on a bus with that lot?
4

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 11:54:49
Let us be clear about this. These service cuts cannot be blamed on Lothian Buses. They are because of the tram scheme and, if TIE's risk and revenue appendix is anything to go by, they are very likely to be the tip of the iceberg.

Yesterday's letter from Willie Gallagher talked about the trams enhancing public transport in Edinburgh. Now I understand: Lothian Buses are going to cut/reduce so many services that, by the time the tram starts, it would be seen as an enhancement to the public transport system!

The tram scheme is the council's baby and it must take responsibility for these cuts.
5

Grumpy,

31/07/2008 11:56:57
They would have been better scrapping the Transit Mini-Buses to the Airport - most go with only one person in it anyway. And the No 18 service is attrocious - how you can cut this back further beggars belief.

Suggestion: Cut back the No 22, 26 and 44 services instead
6

Brian Ferrari,

31/07/2008 11:56:59
Isn't it the case that LRT bus drivers get a pay and pensions package which is better than that offered by the private sector?

And a 5.1% pay rise for next year. Not bad.
7

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 11:57:13
4 Absolute nonsense Sarah. Have you ever travelled on an 18 or a 13 ? They have been empty for years.

"lets be clear about this".
8

allknowing,

31/07/2008 12:01:46
"and socially deprived. "

Whats that then, poor people scrounging on the dole who cant be bothered to work and would rather throw stones at busses?
9

Liz,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 12:07:08
#5
Yes, how many would notice a couple less of any of the above services per hour? (obviously not at peak times) Divert them to other routes.

The point of having a bus network is to cover a wide area of the city (to do the usual reduce congestion emmisions type arguements). The less profitable route should be subsidised by the more profiable ones.

Just think, for the £700 million our new tram line is costing, Edinburgh and Mid Lothian could have had the world's best bus network. What are we getting instead? - cuts to routes (this is presumably just the start) and a stupid expensive white elephant of a tramline that is going to be of use to only a fraction of the population.
10

ka,

31/07/2008 12:07:27
"would rather throw stones at busses"

That is because they fear the giant rumbling maroonand white dragons that stalk their estates. They have to throw the stones to make those dragons go away. It's just local people ensuring the safety of their own communities.
11

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 12:07:58
People should buy bikes. THat way they can get to where they want to go and will be healthier , wealthier and wiser too.

Buy a Bike.
12

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 12:09:34
People should buy dragons that speak with Sean Connerys voice.
13

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 12:14:10
5 Thats actually a good point.

Buses.

You wait 15 seconds on a 22 then 19 try to snog you in a boat after blowing up a secret lair disguised as a volcano.
14

Tallulah,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 12:14:59
Apparently the No 11 is one of the services to be cut, according to a text from EN today, but not mentioned in the article anywhere...
15

allknowing,

31/07/2008 12:15:37
#10 an interesting view point!!!


Busses have always been for the poor, the only difference now is pretend well-off people say they use the bus to be 'green' and 'ease congestion'. Its all quite funny, esp when you drive past them in the pouring rain waiting for another late bus!!
16

The Hallucinist,

31/07/2008 12:17:03
#2 AndrewS - are you not posting any racist comments here, as you appear to enjoy post them on the sports threads
17

Peekay,

31/07/2008 12:19:41
Revenues could be increased if they stopped automaticaly issuing free passes to people over 60. I have a colleague on £60K p.a. who gets free travel to work.
18

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 12:20:20
Mario (7) - Lothian Buses have had considerable success in increasing public transport use largely because of its ability to support less financially viable routes out of profits from others.

I do not understand the logic that cutting/altering 16 bus routes which "serve large swathes of the city's elderly and socially deprived" can be a good thing, in terms of public transport provision or encouraging people to leave the car at home.
19

johnny boy,

edinburgh 31/07/2008 12:22:50
It is absolutely scandalous that the bloated public sector receive these inflation busting pay awards and continue to receive these pension benefits which are massively subsidised by the tax payer. Many people are not fortunate to be in any pension scheme. That thief Brown has destroyed the private sector pensions.
20

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 31/07/2008 12:24:21
Get rid of the service 22 completely and thise awful single deck buses .
And get rid of the Metro rag .
21

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 12:25:03
15 THats just a silly thing to say. I shouldnt even have to tell you this but in cities with real integrated transport systems like.. well anywhere in Mainland europe really.. the majority travel on public transport. One good case is Frankfurt , the powerhouse of the german economy. Population 600,000 but 1,2 million commute there to work (mostly not very poor).

So , instead of looking forward to (the start of ) an integrated transport system you'd rather stick your nose up in the air and think you are posh because you own a car ?

Parochial and insular.
22

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 12:25:54
18 I agree Sarah, but I dont think personally you can blame this on the trams. Well ; I can't.
23

geekpie,

forfar 31/07/2008 12:28:50
Bad news.

We need to subsidise bus services like these.

By offering comprehensive public transport, it becomes more justifiable to increase taxes on those who refuse to use it and insist on sticking to their cars.
24

Trams shams,

31/07/2008 12:30:56
Mario... Any one with two brain cells can see right through this sham ...pity you can not!
25

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 12:33:13
Sorry , slightly overcalculated the number of commuters into frankfurt. Its "only" 400,000.
26

YummyMummy,

31/07/2008 12:33:32
#5

I agree. 22s should only run as frequently as they do during peak times. Once the trams are up and running im sure we wont need as many.
And 18's only run every half and hour during the week and hourly on a Sunday.. are they planning on makin it hourly durin the week too?
27

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 31/07/2008 12:36:36
Maybe Lothian Buses should remember that a local authority owned bus company is there to provide a bus service, not massive profits.
28

jts,

edinbburgh 31/07/2008 12:36:37
What about the residents that live in the sheltered housing complexes around the Number20 route- they can use the bus to get to the shops as the stops are near at hand but getting to the Wester Hailes road stops and using the underpasses which are quite dangerous. Is just a step too far.
How are they supposed to do their shopping and get to the Doctors etc without this service?
Will the Health services be happy to do more home visits - for those who can not get to the surgries? Will the Supermarkets be putting a service on to get people into their shops?
I think we all know the answer to these questions and its a residing NO
Even the Mums with buggies and small children are going to be effected by this foolishness
29

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 12:42:04
#5 Are you mad? The 22, 26 and 44 services are actually making the company money. Your suggestion is the economics of the mad house.
When you see the routes that SPT subsidises, many of them run with fewer passengers than some of the loss making Lothian routes; the council cannot get away without sharing responsibility for this problem, along with the people who lied when they said they would use them.
30

YummyMummy,

31/07/2008 12:42:23
#28

Thats a good point but LB have already prooved their not in favour of parents with young children.
31

Peekay,

31/07/2008 12:47:31
#29 But surely they could make even more money if they did not run in convoys? Look at the front page of the LRT web site - two 22's running within yards of each other.
32

Bigwull,

edinburgh 31/07/2008 12:56:39
19 2% wage rise this year
and an increase of pension contributions for less benefits
and no freebies!
hardly inflation busting is it?
33

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 12:59:06
#31 That is a problem that bus companies face worldwide; only one city so far has found a solution (to employ people to maintain spacing between services) and with UK wages it wouldn't be cheap. Other than technology I don't see any other solution
34

Shooting from the lip,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:00:21
Get with the program people, there is no such thing as LRT ... its Lothian Buses.

Passenger numbers are up , yes of they are because the same people who used to get one bus to work now have to get two. It wouldn't surprise me if their figures took into consideration all the unemployed drunks and junkies who can now buy an all day ticket and choose to jump on and off buses all day.

Yes the best way to save money would be to reduce the ridiculous amount of 22's and maybe put more double deckers on that route to cope with peak time passengers.
35

antifa,

31/07/2008 13:04:02
allknowing - since you only seem to post on here to spout bile about the "dole scroungers" and "pretend well-off" (?), at least learn that the plural of bus is "buses", you illiterate twerp.
36

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:05:41
Mario (22) - I am sure that the rising cost of fuel has had an effect but, to the extent of cutting/altering 16 bus services on top of the recent fare increase? I find that very hard to believe.
37

Bob 2,

31/07/2008 13:08:46
The Lothian Buses name was formed in January 2000 and replaced the former LRT Lothian fleet name.

PLEASE NOTE 2000


27 Road Raga,EDINBURGH 31/07/2008 12:36:36
Maybe Lothian Buses should remember that a local authority owned bus company is there to provide a bus service, not massive profits

Road Raga..LB do not make massive profits...£5.9m compared to the BILLIONS that the Oil Companies have declared over the last few days.

LB have also invested the fare paying passengers money in New Buses.

Maybe the Directors will be taking a cut next year if they fail to make a profit!!

And things will only get worse.

Correct me , but the Profits from the Lothian Buses are to be used to prop up the TRAMS when they start!
38

Vics35,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:10:28
Strange how this story online does not cover the list of services affected yet in the paper copy it does...

Withdrawn: 13, 20, 60, N11, N27
Withdrawn Mon-Fri mornings: N8, N16, N26, N30, N44
Major changes: 12 - Leith Links to Kings Road section withdrawn, 18 - Will run Mon-Fri peak only, 24 - City Centre to ERI evening service becomes hourly, 32 - Will run Mon-Fri peak only, replaced between Wester Hailes & Drumbrae by alteration to 21, 42 - Bristo Place to Kings Road section withdrawn evenings & Sundays, N8 - Mon-Fri morning journeys withdrawn, Sat/Sun mornings run between Silverknowes & City Centre, N31 - Mayfield sections withdrawn.

Use public transport? Use public transport after a night out? Oh wait soon we won't be able to!
39

Charles Linskaill,

On the go on the mobile 31/07/2008 13:12:10
Oh well, its a few less pram's not to worry about, wanting on the buses.
40

Bob 2,

31/07/2008 13:12:29
Of course the Trams have got nothing to do with this

the Trams have not put people off shopping/travelling in Edinburgh.

The tramworks have not caused any delays to bus services.

Right and Pigs will fly
41

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:12:46
Sarah B is - as always - spot-on in her analysis. Only thing I'd challenge is 'Council . . taking responsibility'? - Don't be ridiculous, Sarah!
These cut backs are the start of a self-fulfilling prophecy to deliver TIE's 'business case'. The Lothian Buses directors will be well rewarded for their treachery. And Councillor Phil Wheeler is - as usual - talking out of his primary exhaust pipe.
42

Bob 2,

31/07/2008 13:14:08
comment 38 Vics35

maybe the Fact that the Evening News needs people to buy papers to keep their business running!!!

not a new concept, its been around for years
43

Moron Slapper,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:14:23
7 Not true. I use the 13 regularly and at peak times in the morning it's often standing room only. Many people would be greatly inconvenienced if the service were to stop. It's also a key service to give locals and tourists access to the Gallery of Modern Art, Dean Gallery and the shopping complex at Blackhall.
44

Statsman,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:17:15
All going to the expected plan then. Bus services slashed as the trams go over budget.

I have to laugh at the pro-tram idiots that are reacting like this is totally unexpected. It's what the educated people have been saying all along.

Can someone shut that Mario spammer up please?
45

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 13:22:00
Educated ? I guess if you cant see the bigger picture you might think you are.

I will have the last laugh i always do. Do you get out of edinburgh much ?
46

NorT,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:22:13
Its about time that Firts Bus competed on some of these routes and then lets see what Lothian Buses do.
47

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 13:24:18
you obviuosly cant read statsman , read it again.
48

Statsman,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:25:15
That's another two spams Mario. Very good. Your Council masters will be impressed.
49

Vics35,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:25:35
First Bus can't compete on their own routes never mind routes covered by Lothian! Many a time within their 'own catchment area' they will sail past a bus stop if there are Lothian Buses there - how can they expect to pick up passengers if they won't even stop?
50

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 13:27:49
48 You are a miserable little man.
51

Bob 2,

31/07/2008 13:29:55
no46........

and make things even worse....FIRST would cherry pick the profitable routes, which would end up costing even more less profitable routes.

And do you want even more 22's or 26's running, we've been there, remember when FIRST introduced the £1 day ticket, how long did it last, how many duplicates of the duplicates buses did we have running.

FIRST have even bigger salaries to pay to the bosses at the top.
52

Bob 2,

31/07/2008 13:31:24
come on folks, comment on the article and stop the personal slanging match.
53

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:31:39
Thomas (41) - I live in hope but, this time, the councillors received so many warnings of the possible implications that it would be very easy to ensure they do not escape public accountability.

As far as the Business Case is concerned, that is not the crucial document - it is the associated risk and revenue report which sets out the more pragmatic view. It says, amongst many other things, that the business case was produced during a time of strong economic performance and the case put forward was based on that continuing. The business case also assumed that huge numbers of properties would have been built at the Waterfront by the time the tram started and that any delay in that building programme equates to a sliding scale of losses to Lothian Buses. I guess, when the councillors approved the business case last December, they did not think that the economy would take such a serious downturn but what is particularly alarming is that they have never uttered one syllable about how they would tackle that scenario to ensure that Lothian Buses' services would not be put at risk.
54

Statsman,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:32:43
And another Mario. Keep it up. By the time you are done, there is so much of your spam in the comments that they become difficult to read. Presumably that's the intention?
55

Bob 2,

31/07/2008 13:32:45
maybe they should be looking at some of the park and ride buses, has anyone seen a busy one?
56

Big bob 79,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:33:17
Have to laugh at Mr Renilson comments. Lothian buses has increased passenger numbers by 40% over the last 10 years. Lothian Buses has only been around for 8 years!.... and its not passneger numbers that have increased by 40% its journey numbers that have increased, the reason behind this increase is you can No-longer get one bus from A to B. Due to the route re-shuffles you have always got to change buses in town and at £1.10 a pop this is an awful deal. However this does allow Lothian to haul in big profits and Mr Renilson to claim massive increases in people using the buses.
Its all a sham and when will the people of Edinburgh wake up to the fact that Lothian Buses and our council have crushed competition in Edinburgh and are ripping us off everyday of the week.
57

Koala Cubes,

31/07/2008 13:37:55
What hope have we got when the numpties in charge of LB run the 13 every 40 minutes at peak time and then every 30 minutes at non-peak times?
58

Bob 2,

31/07/2008 13:41:18
yawn
59

KTCB41,

31/07/2008 13:46:24
If the problem is that the money you get back from the government everytime someone flashed their "free" bus pass is less than it costs you to transport them, then it makes sence to cut the services most used by such people.

The alternative, and this seems unlikley, if for the government to properly fund the "free" bus pass scheme.
60

calum,

31/07/2008 13:52:14
#53/56 - Also interesting is that Renilson now admits, for the first time to my knowledge, that the TramLINE will replace one bus route. There you have it.
61

calum,

31/07/2008 13:55:29
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburghtransportplans/On-track-all-his-life.4343023.jp

62

Statsman,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 14:02:20
61 calum

"THE IMPACT OF THE TRAM
"It will take 19 buses off the road, which will mean the loss of 40 drivers, but there will be no redundancies as those job losses will be absorbed through normal staff turnover. The tram will only replace one bus route, there will still be 48 other bus routes in Edinburgh, serving 75 per cent of the city and those services won't change.""

The tram will only replace one bus route.
The tram will only replace one bus route.
The tram will only replace one bus route.
The tram will only replace one bus route.
The tram will only replace one bus route.

I can think of better ways of spending £650m.
63

Angus R,

31/07/2008 14:06:12
Other cities such as Manchester have a Tram Line - why can't Ediburgh get one of these?
64

Statsman,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 14:08:42
63 Angus R

Manchester had the Manchester-Bury railway. The tram replaced the train using the same tracks. It's not quite the same thing happening in Edinburgh
65

Big bob 79,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 14:12:44
If 80% of people using the new tram route are going to be people who would have used the bus does this mean they only expect to carry 80% of the people who use the No19?... Its a lot of money to be spending for such a small group of people.
I doubt that only one bus route will be axed when the tram comes, I cannot see that many people switching to a tram which is less frequent and stops in less places when the city is crawling with buses that have to que up to load up passengers.

66

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 14:13:05
Christ man. You dont want the trams. We get that. BUt you seem to think coming on here and moaning about a project that is well underway and one which will not be stopped to suit you will change things.

I could repeat the fact that this is only the start of trams for edinburgh but you dont want to listen. theres no point in discussing this with you. If you are so much of a halfwit that you cannot understand that all change is a process then heaven help you.
67

Statsman,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 14:17:48
66 The Genuine Mario Antoinette

I'd be looking for any politician that has financially gained through this farce and putting them on trial. This project is not for the benefit of the people of Scotland. It is not for the benefit of the people of Edinburgh.

Yet, it is being built and benefitting someone. It's about time the Police started investigating who exactly it is benefitting and whether charges can be brought.
68

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 14:20:10
67 Fine, no more from me. I'm just happy i'm not you.

Good luck.
69

Hoof Hearted,

31/07/2008 14:21:35
LOTHIAN BUSES WIN ANOTHER TOP OPERATOR AWARD
Date: Wednesday 16th Jul 2008
We have once again topped the polls to receive the National Transport Award for best Public Transport Operator of the Year. The award was presented at a ceremony in London last night.

The National Transport Awards, now in their 8th year, recognise excellence across the transport industry in the UK and Ireland and cover all aspects of public transport including awards for local authorities and bus, tram and rail operators. Once again we have demonstrated our commitment to consistently deliver excellent customer service, maintain high operational and engineering standards, invest in buses and staff together with effective partnerships. These have helped to increase the number of passengers by 40% over the past 9 years.

We had some stiff competition when we were short listed alongside 4 other major UK transport operators including– Stagecoach, Go North East and First Group.

Pilmar Smith, chairman of Lothian Buses who was in London to receive the award said:

“This is another great achievement for Lothian Buses and I felt particularly honoured to collect it on behalf of everyone in the Company who have and continue to work hard delivering the best transport operation in the whole of the Country.”

The news was also welcomed by George Foulkes MSP for the Lothians who added:

“Lothian Buses thoroughly deserve to win another high accolade for providing an excellent bus service for everyone in Edinburgh and the near Lothians. The buses are always well presented and the drivers are helpful and friendly. I would suggest other UK bus companies take a close look at what Lothian Buses do – they seem to be getting it right.”


70

SS,

31/07/2008 14:41:30
Good! Fewer buses on the roads will be a better thing. Can't move in Edinburgh for busses everywhere. More room for bikes, takis and cars now.
71

SS,

31/07/2008 14:43:04
sorry - taxis!
72

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 14:47:11
For goodness sake, half the posters commenting transport related issues moan that the buses are running half empty. LRT seek to cut back or reduce services on some routes and get pelters.

Some people are never happy and moan and moan and moan and moan and moan and moan..........................

Maybe the only person to welcome this news will be Jim Taylor as he will be happy that the redcution in night buses will be less competition for the taxis.

73

YummyMummy,

31/07/2008 14:47:17
Cant move in Edinburgh for buses?
Are you having a laugh?
Cars cause most of the congession on the roads.
74

alex patersons English teacher,

31/07/2008 14:48:57
73
i think you need to kerb your aggrestion.
75

YummyMummy,

31/07/2008 14:49:53
#74

I think you need to stop making pointless comments.. just like this one i've made
76

alex patersons English teacher,

31/07/2008 14:58:41
75
you started it.
77

Concerned Citizen,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 14:59:02
Under the current financial conditions faced by the people of this country due the world financial turmoil and the highly inflated fuel prices. WE THE PEOPLE should now call on the immediate suspension of the work on the TRAM project. Allowing for the work to be done on the diversion of utilities to continue and to finish. Suspend the rest of the project. Use the money from that project to ensure that people of Edinburgh have the services to which the current administration is denying them. The money could be used to help those within the city who may suffer as a result of the current crisis. After all thats what the taxes are really for and not some fanciful projects dreamed up by councillors. It is time for councillors to come back down to earth and serve - WE THE PEOPLE.

£650,000,000 can do a great deal of GOOD for a lot of PEOPLE.

Councillors and MSP and MP - Back to basics.
78

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 15:06:58
77

We The Other People would like to nominate you for the Halfwit Of The Day , Out Of Touch With Reality Award -Who thinks they are living in GDR circa 1958.

79

I love to eat Sellotape,

31/07/2008 15:11:00
Instead of "axing" bus routes, it would be cooler to set them on fire, take pictures and upload them to Bebo.
80

SS,

31/07/2008 15:12:49
Buses create lot of congestion - ever tried to get down Morningside road in the morning (any time infact)?. Two buses pull over, no room to go past them, lots of cars back up. Cars are causing congestion but only 'cause they can't get past buses. And, where are there bus stops every 5 feet? Can people not walk a little bit further? greater distance between stops might stop buses having to pull in so often.
81

,

31/07/2008 15:13:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
82

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 15:15:09
Sarah @53 - thanks for that clarification; you're clearly accessing the same sources as I am! I certainly look forward to 'holding my councillor accountable' (by the throat?) when he comes grubbing for votes. Your line 'when the councillors approved the business case last December, they did not think . . . ' Just about sums it up; these Idiot Councillors don't think, they just wrote a blank cheque for the Emperor's New Clothes, an analogy lost on that Vainglorious Buffoon, Anderson and his Dopey sidekick, Burns.
83

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 15:19:37
Well said Mario
The concerned citizen doesn't seem to realise that the bulk of the tram cash would be used elsewhere across Scotland with a good chance that Edinburgh would see hee haw.

Ps nice use of the umlate to get by the administrator.
84

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 15:29:48
PPS

If, when the trams come on line and are a great success, how dissapointed will the anti trammers be that they spent four or five years of their lives getting up to high-do about the blinking thing.

What will they find to moan about next.
85

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 15:34:34
#80 - typical comment from a selfish, arrogant, obnoxious car driver. On Sunday mornings I take the bus and it is always on time - the reason - hardly any cars on the road. During school holidays the buses run to time - reason - less cars on the road. So who causes the congestion? Cars obviously.

Now - here is a comment from a truly obnoxious car driver - "And, where are there bus stops every 5 feet? Can people not walk a little bit further?"

What about the disabled, elderly, and those with walking difficulties? What about those in wheelchairs? What about those young mums and their buggies? Car drivers like you make me boil - you only think of yourself.
86

Foo,

31/07/2008 15:38:25
#77 - I'm a people. I don't remember you asking me.
87

Foo,

31/07/2008 15:39:44
#81 Yes, well played sir, tis a shame the admin-nazi has swooped.
88

Statsman,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 15:39:50
83 Scallywag

Five people died at the weekend on the dangerous A9. Those lives could have been saved if the road was dual carriageway.

That was what the tram cash was to be used for. The pro-tram brigade have blood on their hands.
89

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 15:41:16
#83 - I am not so parochial that I would rather waste £700m in Edinburgh than have it spent elsewhere in Scotland on projects that make sense.

And the trams will NEVER be a success by any economic measure. The business plan itself shows that it has a worse net economic case than doing nothing, which will only get worse, as Sarah B says, given its dependence on the waterfront development which must be viewed as in serious doubt.
90

James (1),

31/07/2008 16:09:58
As a motorist it gives me great pleasure to say:- I don't use any of these buses so get rid of them!
Put up the prices to make this company make money. Make mothers pay for a permit to allow them to get their buggy or pram on the bus. (Kind of like a parking permit. No guarantee of a place but the council charge you anyway).
More room on the road for me.

As you will see I have used the same logic as bus users/car haters apply to motorists. Get rid of them and all will be well with the world. Ignore the upset that it causes because it does not bother me. Remember, for each bus off the road how clean we are making our environment. Who could complain about that? Certainly not the tree huggers, this is no doubt a brillant piece of news for them.
What goes around, as they say!
91

Leila,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 16:11:59
#83: "The concerned citizen doesn't seem to realise that the bulk of the tram cash would be used elsewhere across Scotland with a good chance that Edinburgh would see hee haw".

So what? It's public money, it should be used for public benefit. If there are greater transport priorities elsewhere in Scotland, the money should be used for that.
92

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 31/07/2008 16:12:22
83 The concerned citizen doesn't seem to realise that the bulk of the tram cash would be used elsewhere across Scotland with a good chance that Edinburgh would see hee haw.

do you mean like the A9 ? print the names of the
council fathers who voted for this folly!
93

Statsman,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 16:12:46
85 Gorgie_Tony

"What about the disabled, elderly, and those with walking difficulties?"

What about their Taxicards?
94

YummyMummy,

31/07/2008 16:16:34
#91

"So what? It's public money, it should be used for public benefit. If there are greater transport priorities elsewhere in Scotland, the money should be used for that."

Exactly! PUBLIC BENEFIT. How are trams going to benefit the public of Edinburgh?
95

YummyMummy,

31/07/2008 16:17:28
Oops, just relised that doesnt make sense at all!
96

Wingman,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 16:20:02
The money being given to Rennilson and his henchmen is just disgusting ! A bus service subsidised by the council, it has no competition, and by halving bus routes the footfall increases !! We the normal punters are getting sick fed up of these fat cats bleeding is dry.. but seem impotent to sort it..
97

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 16:24:38
If, when the trams come online, and the Waterfront/Granton, etc, are still not built; and TEL is facing possible annual losses of up to £52m (out of a circa £89.5m turnover) and decide to increase ticket prices on buses and trams and cut bus services/frequencies to the bone; if then access to public transport through the entire city has been made so difficult that people have reverted to the car and congestion/air pollution has increased, I wonder if the pro-tram people will wonder if perhaps they would have done better to look at TIE's own Revenue and Risk Report which shows all this coming and lobby for bus services to be protected?
98

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 16:27:52
Wingman (96) - In 2007, Lothian Buses had a turnover of £89.5m; its profits were down to £7.3m from £16.3m the previous year; it returned its usual £2m dividend to the Council and invested in 85 new buses; it increased bus passenger numbers for the ninth year in a row.

And, as far as I am aware, any bus company can set up any route they like and there would be nothing the Council or Lothian Buses could do about it.
99

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 16:28:27
Tony@85 - you don't appear to realise that when (if) your beloved trams ever take to the rails, (and not in Gorgie, either) the stops will be about half a mile apart - that's why they can offer 'faster journey times'. Where's your disabled, elderly, and those with walking difficulties;those in wheelchairs and those young mums and their buggies now? I'm not 'anti tram', I just don't wear the same tinted glasses as the Tramoraks.
100

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 16:30:20
100 Tram tram tram auto auto tram.

Please carrry on , this is really funny listening to tired of life witterings of people who moan about everything and dont care about anyone or anything but themselves.
101

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 16:33:33
94 The question you should be asking yourself is why an oil rich country of 5 million people cannot afford infrastructure projects.

I-m not being political , but why do we have no rail links to airports , nothing but buses in our capital city , a dual carriageway masquerading as a motorway between our two largest cities ?

Why ? How the hell does Belgium and Holland manage all this with consumate ease ?
102

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

31/07/2008 16:34:29
Because its a stupid half country full of socially dependant halfwits depressed beyond tablets on booze ?