'Exploitation' tram claim

1

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 11:38:23

Rubbish ! it's EDUCATION

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2

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 12:23:10

While they're at it they'd better teach them not to walk between the rails walking home on a Friday night.

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3

Skip McClendon,

19/06/2009 12:29:20

#2

Exactly. There's nowt educational about a baseball cap with branding for an individual product.

Would we feel happy about Toyota going in and trying to promote their Prius (arguably as environmentally friendly as the trams) to kids? I know I wouldn't.

This is marketing, pure and simple. It's a low, cheap trick and it shouldn't be allowed in our schools.

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4

Julien Donkey Kong,

19/06/2009 12:30:10

Debbie Douglas is right.

This is one sick stunt.

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5

Niadh,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 12:43:16

Yet another example of TIE and the councils dubious use of tram funding.
Why spend the money of window dressing and frivolities when the project is over budget and behind schedule??
I know it's only 10k approx but that could at least go some way to getting this waste of time and space back on the posted timetable.

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6

Foo,

19/06/2009 12:50:32

'But mother Debbie Douglas, whose daughter Shannon, 8, and Rachel Reid-Logan, 8, are pictured right said: "This is child exploitation. Pupils are being used as advertising fodder."'

- As she dressed her kid in Levi jeans, GAP branded top and 'baby' converse sneakers to go to school.

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7

Big bob 79,

19/06/2009 12:57:15

This has to be wrong?
CEC and TIE cannot be this despirate can they?

The tram ambassadors are a desperate attempt to get people interested in the trams but putting these people in to schools?

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8

Ecto,

19/06/2009 13:03:13

This is propaganda from the cooncil on a scale that the Chinese would probably not reach. The communist hairy jumper wearers in the cooncil are doing themselves proud

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9

Big bob 79,

19/06/2009 13:04:11

#7
Debbie D has the choice how to dress her child; it seems the council have taken the decision to push this message on these pupils. Perhaps council or schools should seek the permission of each parent before preaching their tram religion

The tram is good, the tram is great…….

Or perhapse just

Na na na na na na na na na na na na Leader!, I mean big tram!

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10

Foo,

19/06/2009 13:07:42

10

They're giving out 'activity packs'. Not forcing them to wear anything.

I support this move. Well done for some smart thinking.

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11

Big bob 79,

19/06/2009 13:10:30

Why not expand this scheme?
Politcal leafets could be given to children at school at the same time?
Jenny Dawes, and Phil Wheeler can hand out TIE tram baseball hats with a libdem leafet stufed in them

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12

Big bob 79,

19/06/2009 13:12:32

#11'activity packs'
Printed on a lib dem maifesto do doubt.

would be surprised if you were against it as the project needs all the support it can muster.

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13

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 13:21:09

What utter Tosh !

This action by TIE -CEC is to be applauded, it had elements of green,history and health & safety in its presentation.

Presumably these moaners would stop visits by say, cycling groups to promote the cycling proficiency test ?????

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14

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 13:21:43

#11 well said

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15

a point of view,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 13:22:18

So the plans seems to be:

use taxpayers money (yours and mine)
to promote trams to kids
including teaching them an opinion that they are a good thing
even though many Edinburgh residents do not support them.

I think that stinks - do other people think this is ok?

Tell them facts - keep your opinions to yourselves. As the trams will not be running for some time to come, there's not much that children need to know right now.

And don't spend our money just trying to make yourselves popular.

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16

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

19/06/2009 13:23:20

It's a bus *and* a train.

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17

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 13:26:44

It's NOT promotion or marketing,
It's EDUCATION , for goodness sake

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18

Foo,

19/06/2009 13:31:26

I want my kids taught in school about, amongst other things;

dangers of smoking
dangers of drugs
Environmental issues
public transport
cycling
picking up litter

Anyone with a child has a moral responsibility to teach their child on the benefits of public transport, including trams.

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19

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 13:37:52

bravo Foo

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20

a point of view,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 13:38:36

So in the spirit of education, you would be happy for a residents group to give information to children on the following:

overall cost compared to other areas of expenditure like

pavement repairs, school buildings, playing fields.

the additional tax their parents will pay leaving them with less to spend on their children

that most of the capacity of the trams will be standing only, few stops, impact on bus services (impairment of services to all parts of the city)

the number of people killed by construction traffic - at least 2

the thousands of hours wasted in congestion caused by construction

the landfill and atmospheric pollution caused by construction

the shops that have gone out of business, the tourists who have decided not to come back.

If you're going to tell kids about something, you have to be balanced and honest about both sides...

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21

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 13:48:08

ah there are always luddites that stand in the way of progress. we should enthude & inspire the young, not poison their minds with -ve whingeing

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22

,

19/06/2009 13:54:52

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23

a point of view,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 13:57:44

road to hell - answer the point - is what the article describes balanced, accurate and factual, or is it propaganda?

Would you be happy that children were told "nuclear power is the best thing for our future" with no discussion of the pros and cons?

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24

Foo,

19/06/2009 14:01:39

nuclear power IS the best thing for our future.

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25

Skip McClendon,

19/06/2009 14:11:58

#24

Precisely. When you present only one version of the "truth" and omit all others with which you do not agree, then you are presenting propaganda.

Kids should learn about the environment and all types of transport and its impact on the environment. But not from the viewpoint of groups with vested interests.

We don't let Shell or Ford in to schools to market petrol-driven cars to kids, so why whould we let TIE in to market their product to kids?

Give the children the unbiased information, and let them make their own minds up. It's the place of schools and parents to educate children, not interest groups promoting their own agenda.

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26

Big bob 79,

19/06/2009 14:31:17

Ronald McDonald / Burger King staff to be employeed to educate childern on healthy eating.

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27

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 14:32:46

#26 your argument is tosh !

I do not know how many times I must say this, as you simply can't or won't understand, this is NOT marketing, exploitation, propaganda or whatever, it is simply EDUCATION.

I give up, I never thought I would have to repeat myself sooo many times, I fear for the future with people who have such a poor comprehension of the simple facts.

The Trams are the future, they are progress, TIE & CEC hav e grasped this fact, and simply wish to impart this knowledge to our youngsters. This is obviously an excllent strategy, as I see that many adults are too far gone into mere "knee jerk " reactions and "reflexive reactions" that they fool themselves into beleiving is cogent reasoning, to embrace the new.

Dinosaur reasoning, and see where that got them

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28

Skip McClendon,

19/06/2009 14:36:31

#28

It's you who has the reading comprehension issues.

It's not education to provide branded baseball caps to children - it's marketing.

I've asked before and I ask again - what is the educational benefit of providing primary children with a baseball cap branded with a product logo?

And, incidentally, even if it were education (which it isn't) then that's not the responsibility of a tram company. Tram companies should build trams and tramlines. Schools, parents and teachers should educate kids.

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29

Big bob 79,

19/06/2009 14:37:11

TIE tour of schools will feature Jenny Dawe and Phil Wheeler
Jenny will preach to the children about how good what's left of the tram line will be while handing out baseball caps and activity packs

Meanwhile

Phil will preech to the staff telling them how the trams will be, no baseball caps, he will be handing out P45 to the staff to help pay for it!....

TRAM SHAM

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30

Leila,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 14:37:21

My daughter came home from school a couple of years ago with a TIE baseball cap - unfortunately it was too small.

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31

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 14:38:42

I don't have the time or inclination to continue this ridiculous interchange. I have better things to occupy my time, even if you don't.

I will continue to support TIE, CEC and any other organisation that has the vision to see a new greener, sustainable world. I promised myself I would try to remain calm and take the time to explain things in simple terms that all of you could follow, sadly I have failed.

I will withdraw and await our new golden, green & sustainable future, and indeed work strenuously towrds this aim, I am not alone in this, and I bless my enlightened brother and sisters.

I will not continue to try to help you moaning minnies anymore, you can all stew in your oil

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32

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 14:41:02

BAN THE CAR NOW, IT IS THE WORK OF SATAN

Blessed are the Tram makers

PRAISE THE BICYCLE

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33

Skip McClendon,

19/06/2009 14:41:29

#32

Aha! Sloping off again when challenged to state the case for the educational value of branded baseball caps, I see...

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34

Big bob 79,

19/06/2009 14:45:00

#32

I bless my enlightened brother and sisters.

****CULT of TIE****

The Leader is good, the Leader is great, we surrender our will as of
this date!

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35

,

19/06/2009 14:46:12

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36

Big bob 79,

19/06/2009 14:47:08

school meals to be axed in place of cost cutting gruel

pictures of the queen replaced by iconic pictures of the leader

(Jenny Dawes)

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37

The Judge,

19/06/2009 14:47:11

Why are ECC/Tie spending over 10 grand on PR? We're getting a tramLINE whether we want it or not, it's very clear the majority of Edinburgh's Council Tax payer don't want it, but still Jenny & Steve are going to force it upon us.

Steve "do you know who I am" Cardownie promised in this very newspaper to "keep a watchful eye on PR spending".

You're not doing a very good job are you Stevie Boy, mind you've failed at everything you've touched I can't say I'm surprised. You couldn't even manage to persuade New Labour to keep you on!

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38

scotsol,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 14:48:34

Excellent postings, Roadstohell. Welcome to the small select band of sane people who regularly post on this site in support of trams and other green issues. Hope to see more of your thoughts soon.

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39

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 14:54:10

just so you don't escape roadstohell - I'll post this one here as well !

-------
That is not an answer - I am an expert in Global Warming my specialty is analyzing what role the worlds oceans have in it all - that is why I asked you to put forward your 'case' ...

You have simply failed to do so and hope that you baseless hysterical screams are regarded as truth if you shout them louder than anyone else ! .... I suspect you know absolutely NOTHING about global warming but lets put that to the test ....

1: Do you think that CO2 is a major greenhouse gas ?
2: What holds more heat - CO2 or water vapour ?
3: What is the change in CO2 % at whole in the Atmosphere over the last 300 years and do you think that todays CO2 levels are the highest in history?
4:- What Produces more CO2; The Oceans, Volcanoes, Respiration and flatulence of living creatues or ALL of the man-made CO2 industries and inventions (cars, trains, planes the lot !) in the world?
5:- Do ice core samples give a 'real time' account of temperature v/s CO2 - what sort of time 'lag' do think there might be between CO2 rising and temperature rising ?
6: - Does the temperature rise on Mars have anything to do with CO2 ?
7:- Does Sun activity have anything to do with the temperature on Earth ?

Now if you take the time to read through this and properly research your answers .... I am very eager to hear your answers or whether you will just give another flippant carte blanche rebuff !

Still if you want to answer the questions to demonstrate YOUR great knowledge on the subject - if you are successful then you will gain alot of credibility ... if not then ... well you can figure that one out !

Similarly if you have any questions you want to ask me I am all ears and would be happy to answer ....

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40

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 14:57:06

This is "Roadstohell's" Mum here, I don't know what you've all been saying to my little Johnny, BUT he is very, very very upset. He cam rushing down the stairs, without so much as a by your leave, and jumped onto his Bicycle,and said he was "going for a stiff Cycle along the Canal", and pedalled off furiously, just narrowly missing Tiddles the cat, and crushing one of giant marrows. I shouted after him and he shouted something like " PRAISE THE BICYCLE" over his shoulder.

Now, I don't know what you have all been saying, but let me tell you all, if he disappears like the last time, I will be very very angry, and will come round and speak to each and every ones mothers. It took us ages to coax him out of that tree last time, how he got his Bicycle up there with him, we'll never know.
He's always been such a sensitive boy, kind to animals and flowers alike, if anyone has been upsetting him, there will be trouble. His auntie Jenny & Uncle Phil have always been so good to him. He hopes very much to enter "public Life", once he can bring himself to stop wearing shorts and his woggle.
Why can't you all play nice ?

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41

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 15:02:08

#40 ah I can see that you have been very nasty to my little Johnny, you can certainly expect me to speak with your Mum. I hope she speaks to you very harshly and no sweets for week !

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42

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 15:04:08

32:- "I will continue to support TIE, CEC and any other organisation that has the vision to see a new greener, sustainable world. "

You really don't have a clue what you want do you ? You have a 'green' vision and someone has told you what is 'bad' and what is 'good' (probably you've read blogs on eco-militant monthly!) and it is very evident that you have done little or no research into your subject !

TIE and CEC - are in it for the money !!! ... they are selling a false ticket with the green spin on it so folk like you - who don't even understand global warming whilst spouting your views with the fascism we have come to expect from the 'eco' militants - fall for it ...

What really disgusts me is that these disgusting sleazebags are allowed to go into our children's schools and brainwash their garbage in at our expense ! They are just glorified 'Pedos' trying to manipulation young children into their way of thinking and to go hence and to their bidding !

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43

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 15:06:01

Ohhhhh ! you are really in trouble now !!!!
Tut Tut !

You naughty , naughty child Go stand in the corner, go on, right NOW !!!!!

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44

Foo,

19/06/2009 15:06:47

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) concludes that increasing greenhouse gas concentrations resulting from human activity such as fossil fuel burning and deforestation are responsible for most of the observed temperature increase since the middle of the 20th century. The IPCC also concludes that natural phenomena such as solar variation and volcanoes produced most of the warming from pre-industrial times to 1950 and had a small cooling effect afterward.

Global surface temperature increased 0.74 ± 0.18 °C (1.33 ± 0.32 °F) during the last century.

The major greenhouse gases are water vapour, which causes about 36–70 percent of the greenhouse effect (not including clouds); carbon dioxide (CO2), which causes 9–26 percent; methane (CH4), which causes 4–9 percent; and ozone, which causes 3–7 percent.

Human activity since the industrial revolution has increased the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, leading to increased radiative forcing from CO2, methane, tropospheric ozone, CFCs and nitrous oxide. The concentrations of CO2 and methane have increased by 36% and 148% respectively since the mid-1700s.

These levels are considerably higher than at any time during the last 650,000 years, the period for which reliable data has been extracted from ice cores.

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45

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 15:15:22

42;- Is that really all you can say ?

Ok - try and answer just one of the questions to try and demonstrate at least 'some' working accurate working knowledge on the subject which you are so opinionated on ?

TIE will be remembered as one of the most disgusting examples of something socially toxic, financially apocalyptic and environmentally dubious that ever got through the gates of common sense. We and our children will be paying the price many years from now ... infact it seems that our children are paying the price now !!

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46

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 15:16:20

#45 , well that's all very well dear, I'm very happy for you, but if my Johnny stays up in that tree again, I will be most peeved.

It was only the Swans, thet broke his fall last time, I never realised that these sleep darts that the Vet shot would work sooo fast.

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47

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 15:17:50

#46, just you wait until I tell your Mother the language you've picked up, I never heard the like, and back into you corner, nobody said you could come out.

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48

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 15:21:11

ooohhhh ! here comes the Minister again, oh now my little Johnny has climbed up the steeple again, you know what that means, don;'t you ?

Another repair bill for the church roof, those "french handlebars" play havoc with the flashing you know !!!

ooohh my gawd !!!!!!!

He's taken off those shorts and woggle now, BUT what a time to decide to do without em, lucky I made him put on fresh underpants this morning !!!!

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49

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 15:22:26

ooohh what a "to do", they got the Fire Brigade now, trying to tempt off his perch with some some rubber solution and french chalk, ooohh lummy !!!!

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50

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 15:23:50

ooohhh my word , the shame, whatdid he do with those underpants this morning ? If he's fed them to the cat again, there'll be merry hell to pay

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51

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 15:24:35

oooh me heart, i got them palpingstations again i ave

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52

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 15:25:23

oooooooh where did I put that blowpipe and curare again ?????

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53

brianmca3,

auld reekie 19/06/2009 15:34:57

bloody nora council now bribing kids to promote the trams
it will save having to go to some mincy ad agency,and pay thousands ,for rubbish,what next broons brother handinf out goody bags ,to persuad mum and dad ,to let brother gordon put nuclear power stations in scotland and dump nuke waste where ever they want
if not-the -nine oclock news can rip windscale to pieces ,about the amount of radiation that leaked into the area(glowing kids /ready break circa 1980-1981)
school blazers with "Eat at joes pizza"

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54

Dragonlord,

19/06/2009 15:38:06

Tie and the coucil will have all workes start their day with a chanting session.

The trams are good, the trams are great!

Who gave them permission to do this? Who is paying for these glorified propaganda packs? Tie tell lies and they are allowed access to kids! Where is the money coming from?
Recent letter to EEN indicated the damage to George street, due to the increased heavy traffic, who will foot the bill for repairs?

Edinburgh will be bankrupt soon it's time to call a halt!

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55

roadstohell,

19/06/2009 15:43:27

Lets talk about the more imprtantr issue of saving Phoebe Traquairs murals in the old sick chicks, see this issue of the EEN.

I bet LHB wants them to be "lost" or battered by the wreckers ball ,rather than restored and kepr for posterity.

Don't ket them do it, "SAVE THE SICK CHICKS MURALS"

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56

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 16:30:24

45:- Lets dissect that a bit !

IPCC - Made up of Scientists who's living is specifically based on 'proving' and 'investigating' the human effect on climate change - these people are not 'neutral' and anyone who is anyone knows it !

Many of their numbers have resigned and have refused to put their names to the reports that go out on account of them having so much 'spin' in them that they do not represent the truth!

"The IPCC also concludes that natural phenomena such as solar variation and volcanoes produced most of the warming from pre-industrial times to 1950 and had a small cooling effect afterward." -- how have things radically changed since the 50's ???? The answer is they haven't in global terms! This is clever manipulation of fact - the statement 'implies' that things have radically changed since the 50's owing to Manmade intervention whilst infact it doesn't say anything about what it thinks apres 1950's ...

Global surface temperature increased 0.74 ± 0.18 °C (1.33 ± 0.32 °F) during the last century. MARS warmed by 0.65C from the 1970's to 1990's compared with Earths 0.6C for the same period !!!! That is really really game set and match !

But ....

"The major greenhouse gases are water vapour, which causes about 36–70 percent of the greenhouse effect (not including clouds); carbon dioxide (CO2), which causes 9–26 percent; methane (CH4), which causes 4–9 percent; and ozone, which causes 3–7 percent"

IPCC wild guesstimates as you can see by the error margins - what are clouds made of again ? Why not so included ? Infact water vapour (including clouds which do happen in some places!) can account for over 90% of greenhouse gas ! - You can 'feel' the difference clouds make - it is warmer at night when it is overcast! What is evident is that CO2 (of which about 10% of the total is produced by man) is not contributing much even when taken as a whole !

"The concentrations of CO2 and methane have increased by 36% and 148% respectively since th

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57

Voldemort,

19/06/2009 16:31:59

cont:-

The concentrations of CO2 and methane have increased by 36% and 148% respectively since the mid-1700s." This is a really interesting one ! World population was around 600 million in the 1700's rising to 900 million in the 1800's where it stayed stable for a long while .... we now have 6 Billion people and all the associated and exponential infrastructure and industry .. that is an increase of 1000% !!!!! I believe the world is way overpopulated but it is evident that we have had very little effect on the atmosphere. The very fact that temperature is increasing, for now, means that wetlands, oceans, and permafrost release more of these gases. Humans account for very little. Methane is 25 times more 'effective' as a greenhouse gas than CO2 but our cars and industry do not produce methane - so the eco-militants ignore that fact ! - Methane is entirely natural organic gas.

Lastly - I love this one as it typifies the 'not the whole truth' base argument ...

"These levels are considerably higher than at any time during the last 650,000 years, the period for which reliable data has been extracted from ice cores"

This IS true !!! BUT - a:- the ice core samples PROVE that CO2 atmospheric content has a 'lag' of approximately 800 years to 'make' the correlation between it and temperature.

And b:- if you go further back that 650,000 years to say the Paleogean, Cretaceous, and Jurassic periods CO2 and Methane were MILES higher than they are today due to dense organic waste and extremely active volcanoes ... so the long and the short of it is is that this is not new news to mother earth infact it is VERY old hat !

The real killer for the man-made CO2 being the 'root of all evil' and the cause of all our problems theory is the fact that all of our surrounding planets are getting warmer to almost exactly the same degree ... and you can just explain that away or ignore the fact !

I mean make you own minds up - how many 4x4's do you reckon the Martians h

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58

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 16:35:59

If you want a real laugh folks just look at 47's comment to 45 .... classic ! Presumably the comments were actually aimed at me but I love where where they landed !

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59

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 16:57:12

Roadstohell :

I am starting to think you are drunk or smoking something a bit 'herbal' ? At least old Foo has tried !!

Anyway back on topic at last.

I am one of many appalled parents that the Council and TIE have crossed the boundary of politically 'neutral' teaching (OK teachers have always been a bit left wing but at least they 'tried' to be neutral!).

Now the class room has become a mockery - illiterate kids leave school but by jove they know alot about trams !

Society is entering a new phase - 'green' fascism .... Like the witch hunts of the 17th century they scream 'witch' ... but maybe we are wise enough now to say - 'wait a minute!' or have we learned nothing and blindly follow burning everyone who dares stand up against the lies, double standards and hypocrisy!

I would like to think we had learned that those who burned the witches were evil twisted men themselves. Their lust for power quenched by peddling fear in the masses. I'd like to think that we now look back and realise that most of the 'witches' that were burned were ordinary folk and innocent on the whole .... I'd like to think that some people see the parity of that story and what is happing right now !

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60

Pilrig,

Livingston 19/06/2009 17:03:16

19 and of course the child will be told that motor cars are works of the devil as are foreign package holidays. In fact there's no need for anyone to use aeroplanes bar important people like politicians and civil servants

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61

Pilrig,

Livingston 19/06/2009 17:05:58

33 only travels abroad when a canoe is available !

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62

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 17:09:46

how sick is this? using kids! yes USING.
any caring sensible parent will chuck the damn hats and bits in the wheely bin (ah! but what one though?)
for gawds sake! we cant stop you building the trams now, you have already caused havoc in the town! so why use innocent children to promote your non idealistic foresight?
i always thought that trams might make a come back but my problem with the whole operation is simple?
dig up roads (agreed that has to be done) move services like water etc (again agreed that has to be done) but why the bl00dy heII dont they lay the tracks and erect the post that carry the cables at the same time? all done in 1 swoop! then when they backfill all the holes all they have to do is thread the cables through the posts! now thats simple!
OH! sh*t....forgot...were talking about our esteemed council and tie! bu66er!

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63

eDUCATIon,

19/06/2009 17:58:41

All this just proves that even the kids in P1 - 7 think the Trams are a s**** idea. They need brainwashed too.

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64

eDUCATIon,

19/06/2009 18:01:17

I pity roadstohells' kids....i really do

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/jun/15/climate-change-children

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65

Foo,

19/06/2009 18:31:20

63

It's bit rich from you; a hysterical 'think of the kids!' scream, when you freely admit to being a smoker. I presume you have smoked around children in the past - did you not take a second to think about the irreversible damage you are doing to their health?

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66

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 19:11:19

#66 foo
i swear, i have never smoked in the same room where children are, i have never ever smoked in a pub whilst people round me were eating, i have never ever smoked at a bar where people are working, i have grandkids youngest being 2 1/2 and when my wee angel comes to my house i would never ever dream of smoking!i smoke responsibly (my choice, its legal and the government makes megga bux from me and the likes!) so in reality you should take 1 step back and preach your twattery to others of the same ilk!

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67

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 19:11:27

66:- Have you ever had kids around to a BBQ ? Or sat around a camp fire ?

The smoke from these items is much more 'deadly' ....

I am surprised at you at any rate; you usually don't dip to trying to justify child exploitation and brainwashing on the basis that a 'smoker' said it was unacceptable ...

Here's a stat you might no have heard before - 100% of non-smokers die.

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68

Foo,

19/06/2009 20:32:51

67 gordon aka smoker and proud

Well, if what you say is true, then well done. I know we don't always see eye to eye, but if what you say is true, then well done man, that's pretty considerate of you.

I still think smoking is bad though. I had a horrible cough when I smoked, now I've given up (5 years now), I feel dandy, much better. I'd urge you to give up, it's never too late.

#68 I see where you're coming from...but the effects from a one off BBQ compared to smoking every day (possibly with kids in the same room) can't really be compared, can it?

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69

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 20:37:29

#68
thank you very much for your comment there, its seem that the foo types (maureen moore etc from ash) non smokers seem to think that smokers are irresponsible.
fact=no one in great briatain has ever had on their death certificate, death by smoking.
fact=no one has ever (including roy castle) had on their death certificate death due to second hand smoke(passive smoking caused by employment through choice)
no one EVER forced people to work in envornments where smoking is allowed legally!
trams are a fact of our lives now, there is no going back sadly, the commitment has been made and the work undertaken (????? work!!!!)
all i said was that children should not be used to promote tie and council policy! thats not fair!
foo seems, sadly to have a chip on his/her shoulder about smoking and at every turn try to turn a reasonable discussion into a 1 person vendetta against his/her opinion without regard to others!

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70

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 21:04:55

69:- 20mins grilling on the BBQ is apparently 40 fags worth of damage - £12.30 including the sausages ! - if the cancer don't get you then damn cholesterol does !

This is totally off topic but it really does strike me that more folk than you can poke a stick at are so concerned about not dying they are forgetting to live these days!

You are right a whiff of smoke from a BBQ, nor a cigarette, nor a camp fire will do a kid (or anyone else) any harm (if it does they didn't stand much of a chance anyway!).

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71

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 21:10:32

Foo - I know that we disagree on a lot of things but can I ask you a personal question ... ?

I know he is a fan of yours but, honestly, do you think that 'Roadstohell' is a bit of a nutter ? hehe ...

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72

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 19/06/2009 21:34:00

You can have whatever view you like about trams but these postings show some great lateral thinking.
we start with kids in school getting PR about trams and end with BBQ sausages. Great stuff

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73

Foo,

19/06/2009 21:38:48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqhpUfkfODI

Voldemort
Let's just say, Roadstohell has his own groove, and he rides it reasonably well-ish!

gordon
OK, I hear you, I've given you short thrift in the past, so I'll answer you straight up.

I don't hate people that smoke in all honesty. I often fell sorry for smokers that get demonised.

I am willing to take expert opinion on such matters at face value because I'm not an expert. Are you?

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74

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 22:14:17

#74 no i am not an expert but i have read and surfed enough to know what i said about death certs are true, but the main story here really is the damn trams and the lack of coordination between anyone concerned with the project then we find that innocent children are being (back door ways) recruited to publicise the thing! smoking aside, do you really think this is fair?

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75

Foo,

19/06/2009 22:25:32

75

Well, this is old argument aint it? You don't like em, I do!

I'm not a fool, I've listened to a lot of the anti tram arguments (some of which I've even agreed with). In this case, I think it's a non story, kids get told tons of stuff at school, good and bad. I doubt they'll even remember it (and I wish they would).

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76

Voldemort,

Edinbugh 19/06/2009 22:42:45

74:- Nuff said .... I think I can read between the lines there !

76:- I guess that about sums it up - I don't like em - you do ! I genuinely respect that ... but, I do draw a line at kids being brought in to prop up a deeply unpopular, very expensive, dubious project. Now we may disagree again but the purpose of school is to arm our children with the basic expertise to allow them to form opinions of their own this, in my humble opinion, should not include government interference.

How would parents feel if, instead, BP or Texaco came into the schools and started handing out 'activity packs' ? It is exactly the same thing.

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77

Julian.,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 22:58:14

Gordon,

Something not quite right there. You have bent over backwards to avoid smoking in the presence of children but yet deny the effects of passive smoking. You can't have it both ways.

Where's Euan and GT today? I really miss a good bit mindless banter.

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78

Foo,

19/06/2009 23:03:10

Well, anyway, goodnight. It's niCe to end on a somewhat happy mood occasionally isn't it, even if we do all disagree?

This'll make you laugh; No Handshake For You!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K68THqDqPKc&feature=channel_page

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79

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 23:04:23

78:- ahhh if it isn't tram jim jam Julian ! how's the new Thomas the tram engine fantasy going ?

I am really surprised you 'miss' mindless banter when you have so much to give ...

Now lets hear how you think brainwashing children and providing them with gifts from big business is good ?

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80

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 23:08:33

79:- That was a funny video !

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81

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 19/06/2009 23:16:14

just before i go to bed---
#78 julian, if you actually take the time to read what i said, i smoke (the nic name sorta gives it away eh!) but i respect other peoples opinions and freedoms, i dont smoke in front of kids because i like to think that i set some sort of example (my grandkids mainly but all children) same as i would never ever dream of smoking in a place where people are eating, and as i said my partner does not and never has smoke, i do not smoke in the house other than going upstairs and openiong the side window. then as the story here is, i am making comparisons about the shambles tie/council are making in our city, i am not saying that trams will be a total waste but the planning etc is corrupt to say the least and now as the story unfolds the eejits that are involved are now USING children without consent or thought for free advertising, i wonder what will be in the freeby bags? model trams and balloons saying council and tie are gr8!
children go to school to learn and be educated to eventually have their own opinions and be part of society,that takes time,education gets them there, so giving them tram cr*p does nothing to further their education other than free publicity and cheap advertising.

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82

tumshie heid,

19/06/2009 23:22:13

Shameless pr stunt. Perhaps they should ask the kids to get involved with finishing the tramline? They would no doubt do a better job.

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83

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 19/06/2009 23:44:11

82:- Absolutely spot on. The day they use children as the vehicle for their propaganda is the day that democracy dies.

Nothing less than a public apology for TIE and CEC's conduct will do. Saddam used children as shields for his palaces as do our 'elected' politicians for their 'jobs for the boys' projects. It is a dirty stain, by any account, on democracy.

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84

Julian.,

edinburgh 20/06/2009 01:04:58

Voldermort,

From what I saw of Princes Street the other day the fantasy is fast becoming a reality....unlike that fantasy of the anti-tram brigade; that by posting untruths on this website about the project that they will actually have a chance of stopping it.

As usual you anti-tram lot equate being pro-tram with being pro-TIE. I have a generally poor view of TIE and using public funds in this way is ridiculous in my opinion...that's what I think.

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85

Julian.,

edinburgh 20/06/2009 01:09:30

Gordon,

Sorry I'm still not clear on this one. Surely that would mean you don't smoke anywhere where children can see you. That means you would have to stub it out every time a child comes into view.

Or is it just possible that in the back of your mind, just like most of the other smokers, you do realise there is a risk from secondary smoking and that's why you don't light up in the same room as kids?

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86

bluehead,

edinburgh 20/06/2009 09:50:44

even if Jesus blessed the tram system it still would be a scandalous waste of money,the city will never be allowed to forget this terrible state of affairs
where, when other things were needed the council threw all those millions of pounds down the drain
especially when there was a first class transport system in place from the beginning
Edinburgh is now just a dump.!!

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87

bluehead,

edinburgh 22/06/2009 10:53:40

it seems there is nothing this tram pile will not sink to!!,to use children to back up their disastrous tram system is diabolical,
the people responsible for the whole mess should also be given caps ,but not baseball caps,they should be given dunces caps,for if anything is at the bottom of pile it is certainly that lot

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88

Telly,

24/06/2009 13:39:10

Remember, many schools were threatened with closure to pay for this tram project.

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