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Police spark alfresco row with call for 9pm curfew



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Published Date: 15 August 2008
POLICE chiefs were today accused of trying to stifle Edinburgh's cafe culture after urging councillors to limit night-time alfresco drinking and dining.
Late last year, restaurateurs and publicans were celebrating after winning their lengthy battle to extend the operating hours of pavement cafes in the city.

The council agreed to allow tables and chairs outside bars and restaurants for an additional two hours in the evening, scrapping the previous 9pm curfew.

But some of the first licensees wanting to take advantage of the new rules have run into opposition from Lothian and Borders' chief constable.

Letters written on his behalf have been sent to the council, stating that 9pm is an "appropriate time" for tables and chairs to be brought inside on Rose Street, George Street, the High Street and the Grassmarket. The police said this would keep pavements clear for late-night revellers.

But the force was today told to "sort its act out" by business chiefs, who are keen to encourage a continental-style atmosphere.

Councillors were today due to consider five late licence applications, with police chiefs calling for a 9pm curfew for four of the premises.

Graham Russell, chairman of the Federation of Small Businesses Edinburgh, said: "How can the police possibly object? We are supposed to have a cafe culture in Edinburgh. We've spent money cobbling the streets and making areas attractive. At 9pm, the sun hasn't even gone down.

"If the police have got a problem, they need to address that problem rather than try to ban the enjoyment for innocent people who are relaxing. The police need to sort their act out."

The Element style bar on Rose Street, formerly Brecks, and Browns on George Street have both asked for permission to keep tables and chairs outside until 11pm. The Last Drop pub in the Grassmarket and the Italian Rocco Restaurant on the High Street want to serve diners and drinkers outside until 10pm.

But in each case, an inspector in the police licensing section wrote: "I believe that 9pm is an appropriate time for the permission to cease, as this will permit the clearance of the public footways of table and chairs to permit free passage of those patrons attending the late-night entertainment venues around the city."

The relaxation of the 9pm curfew came into force in April, and an unknown number of pubs in the city have already been granted late licences for tables and chairs because there were no objections. It is thought these four applications generated police opposition because they apply to some of the city's busiest streets.

Traders pay annual table and chair permit charges of £65 for each square metre of outdoor space, or £85 in the world heritage site, with a £150 surcharge for a 10pm licence or £300 for 11pm.


The full article contains 476 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 August 2008 11:48 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh planning issues
 
1

,

15/08/2008 11:41:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Skip McClendon,

15/08/2008 11:47:56
"World-class" red tape. The police are nuts.
3

Skip McClendon,

15/08/2008 12:02:22
So they police want streets clear by 9pm to make way for "late night revellers"...

By which they mean, I presume, jakeys who will be totally wasted by 9pm?

Great policy...put the interests of drunks who can't walk in a straight line by 9pm ahead of people enjoying a social drink or an evening meal at a pavement cafe.

Absolutely insane.
4

Boy Wonder,

15/08/2008 12:12:27
The polis want you never to leave your hoose! Then they'll be happy!
5

John Gibson's Toyboy,

edinburgh 15/08/2008 12:12:41
Can I suggest the Chief Constable takes a short mini-break to Florence and Amsterdam, and many other European cities, where they have no problem with tables outside until midnight and then come back and shut his cakehole.
6

The Judge,

15/08/2008 12:20:25
What a backward little country this is. Anyway we can't really do "cafe culture" in this country, too many jakies, junkies and beggars.
7

alex paterson,

edinburgh 15/08/2008 12:26:31
The way the polis want things we are heading for a polis state,not bad from them who are never out of cafes.
8

Jenny MacArthur's Humvee,

15/08/2008 12:28:26
Visitors to this country must think the war is still going on here.
9

calum,

15/08/2008 12:31:20
I think the un-named Inspector in the Licensing Department who wrote the letter of objection on behalf of the Chief Constable needs to get out more and see Edinburgh for him/her/itself...... and take the Chief Constable along. There he will see many people from all over the world enjoying the City's pubs and cafes. What neither of them will see in the City Centre is much in the way of uniformed cops supervising licensed places and dealing with the drunks, beggars and jakeys. And there, my friends, is the answer.
10

Niko Bellic,

Sing Sing 15/08/2008 12:35:07

Continental style atmosphere? In Scotland? No chance.

Alfresco stabbings
Alfreseco methodone imbibing
Alfresco vomiting

Too much rain, too much Calvinism. Game over.
11

NorT,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 12:39:02
This is not the continent. There should be no tbles and chairs outside on the pavements at anytime. Pavements are for pedestrians. Well done the police on this occasion for objecting.
12

calum,

15/08/2008 12:43:31
NorT - Times have changed. It's not the old Southside with Cowboy now you know. get with it!
13

Findlay Thompson,

15/08/2008 12:46:27
The Chief Constable is correct in his objections. I've lost count of the number of times when leaving a drinking establishment Brahms & Litz'd that I've staggered into a table, chair or designer shrub that someone had left outside a their café or restaurant.

These people have no right to leave anti-personnel traps scattered on the pavement for us Law Abiding carbolic’s to collide with. Selfish if you ask me!
14

Howard Moon,

15/08/2008 12:46:41
NorT - If I were a betting man I would put a pound on you being associated with the EH8 grumbling association in some way.
15

2117,

On the fence 15/08/2008 13:06:13
If there is smoking permitted in these areaa I would close them wholesale otherwise the pedestrian gets kippered on both sides of the street. I understand both arguments as the "revellers" of Alba would throw the chairs through the windows then we would think we were back in Manchester.
16

Louis Catorze,

15/08/2008 13:13:37
It will take a whole lot more than a few shoogly tables to achieve the "continental-style atmosphere" that the cooncil bangs on about.
17

,

15/08/2008 13:15:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

15/08/2008 13:17:15
Quite right. These chairs are dangerous. Cyclists could crash into them.
19

,

15/08/2008 13:18:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

TheSmith,

15/08/2008 13:27:27
On a busy (and dry) night, it can be really hard to get an outside table, so once you're there, you don't really want to move. Plus its that bit longer to walk to get a round in from the bar.
How is this worse than standing at the bar with the constant temptation of a 'cheeky half' in between rounds??
21

The Constant Sinner,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 13:41:26
As much as I like the coffe culture and being outside until late night, we can never be considered at the same level as the 'Continentals'. There are waaaay too many drunks and too many rowdy animals (sorry, 'people' I mean) for this to work.

22

tumshie heid,

15/08/2008 13:45:25
This backwards attitude is why we still see drinking as a national pastime where success is measured by how many units you can consume.
23

James (1),

15/08/2008 13:46:35
I would suggest the majority who have posted here take the view that by allowing tables and chairs to be outside for longer will not cause any problems. This will be based on what exactly? They have maybe used this facility once or twice and nothing happened? The type of logic behind not wearing seatbelts! I've never crashed so I don't see the need to wear one!
This would give certain members of the public and area to smoke and drink. I am the first to agree that smokers are the most considerate of people. They will keep the noise down because they care.
As with most things it is the people who have absolutely no idea what happens in the real world that ridicule those that do.
I mean Mr Russell has not vested interest in this does he?
24

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 14:05:00
Hang on a minute...

The job of the police is to ENFORCE THE LAW. It is not to dictate the law. The law has changed (for the better). The police should---in the words of Gunny Highway---Adopt, Adapt and Improve.
25

James (1),

15/08/2008 14:42:15
#24 So why do you keep coming on here complaining about when they enforce traffic laws?

Gunny Highway?

As Mickey Mouse once said " Hey Pluto!"

By the way both are not real and as was said "After all... tomorrow is another day."- Rhett Butler, Gone with the Wind (fictional character and perhaps the grandfather of Gunny Highway?)
26

JFW,

New Town 15/08/2008 15:32:49
Until the Scots are capable of enjoying alcohol in as responible a manner as folks do on the continent then we should heed police concern about these venues. I personally do not venture near these areas after 8pm at the weekend because of the amount of drunken scumbags you find there and anything to reduce that problem is good in my opinion. I pity the tourist who sits down in these areas at the weekend expecting a pleasant couple of hours, I can imagine how surprised they are by the number of drunken morons around them.
27

Jasbar,

15/08/2008 15:38:04
Another example of our police state.

When will politicians have the guts to tell the police to butt out.

They exist to enforce policy not to make it.

28

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 15:44:53
#25:

Regarding the enforcement of traffic laws, I have a problem with speed cameras. That's all. They represent a case of using a law to make as much money as possible rather than to enforce it for the purpose for which it was originally intended---which in the case of motorways and the national speed limit was to stop racing drivers testing cars like the Shelby Cobra on public roads.

Rules are made for the strict observance of fools and the guidance of wise men. -- Douglas Bader (real-life war hero).
29

James (1),

15/08/2008 15:47:51
#26 the thing with comparing abroad with here is that those going abroad are families, couples and small groups who are not out to cause bother. They want nice weather and sit and chat.
We on the other hand have students who are away from home and basically outwith parental control getting tanked up and being unable to handle it. Coupled with the MONG type who are uneducated and have no social skills being set loose up town.
We need to realise this. Tables and chair to them are weapons.
30

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 15:48:12
#26:

"Until the Scots are capable of enjoying alcohol in as responible a manner as folks do on the continent then we should heed police concern about these venues."

The majority are capable of behaving responsibly. Existing laws cover the mis-behaviour of the minority of others. Direct the policing at them and leave the rest of us alone.
31

Skip McClendon,

15/08/2008 15:54:20
#30

Well said. Why should the anti-social behaviour of a drunken underclass spoil the city for the majority of responsible people?

This policy just seems to be aimed at driving the well-behaved majority away, to allow the drunken nitwits the exclusive use of the city centre.
32

James (1),

15/08/2008 16:07:02
If this is allowed I would hope that smoking at these tables would be banned?
Why should the majority of responsible people be inflicted with the filthy habit of the minority. What say you #30+31?
Can we rely on your support?
33

Skip McClendon,

15/08/2008 16:18:42
#32

Guess that would depend if the tables are covered or not, I suppose.

Not a smoker, nor a fan of smoking, and I supported the law prohibiting smoking in enclosed public places. But there is currently no law against smoking outside. I find smoking very unattractive, but just because I find it unattractive doesn't mean than it's illegal.
34

,

15/08/2008 16:33:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
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35

,

15/08/2008 16:45:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
36

,

15/08/2008 17:16:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

,

15/08/2008 17:31:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
38

Scotish Exile,

15/08/2008 21:14:31
but its ok for night clubs to be open all hours, typical of our stupid politicians
39

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 16:57:28
#33 Skip McClendon

Like you I don't think the smoking ban applies out-of-doors, perhaps #32 and others are just getting carried away a wee bit due to the 'perceived' success of the in-doors ban.

Smoking wouldn't annoy me, but I must say I wouldn't feel at all tempted to eat or drink in the puke/sputum ridden streets of Edinburgh (the Grass Market being a good example) as I would be far to afraid of nasty airborne infections getting into my grub.

 

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