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Pavement licences: 'Police would rather see a 9pm curfew'



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Published Date: 15 August 2008
THE decision by police to oppose four new applications in the city for extended pavement licences is disappointing to say the least. It is not the fact they have lodged objections to them all but it is the spurious manner in which they have done so by failing to outline in each case why they specifically oppose each application.
The issue of extending pavement licences from 9pm until 11pm at night and from 9am in the morning has been the subject of considerable debate for many years. It was only after lengthy consultation with residents and traders in areas likely to be affe
cted – who were overwhelmingly in favour – that the council decided late last year to invite applications.

Today it will consider permit extension applications from premises in Rose Street, George Street, the High Street and the Grassmarket where many pubs and restaurants already have tables outside. But while police have so far ignored a handful of previous applications they will oppose all four today. It would have been hoped that having carefully examined each application on its merits they would make comments and recommendations where appropriate. But it would appear they have not done so. In each case they are objecting on the grounds that they are of the opinion that 9pm is an appropriate time for permission to offer outdoor service to cease. And as if to justify this they say leaving out tables longer than this might hamper the movement of those looking for late-night entertainment. Do they mean drunks?

In any event this appears far from legitimate grounds for objection. Instead it seems the police are in effect making a political statement that they disagree with the policy and it is to be hoped that the licensing committee will see through this and ignore their opposition.

We are being continually told by the police that the city centre is now a safer place. More officers on the streets, particularly at night on weekends, has resulted in a drop in unruly behaviour and crime. That is a good thing.

But surely the point of all this effort is to create a less intimidating and ambient environment where law-abiding citizens can enjoy themselves. Yet it seems quite clear that the police would rather see a 9pm curfew imposed with people being confined indoors rather than face the possibility of having to deal with a few complaints over noise from a handful of diners – although this is hardly likely to be the case as all four premises are located on relatively busy thoroughfares with a reputation for late-night activity.

But should we expect more from a force which was the sole voice of opposition to a Starbucks coffee shop on the Royal Mile opening 24 hours during the Festivals – presumably for fear its clientele, high on caffeine, would provoke disorder.





The full article contains 483 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 August 2008 8:24 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh planning issues
 
1

Boy Wonder,

15/08/2008 11:47:17
Let's be honest ... of the polis were to have their way ... we'd all be locked up in our homes and they could enjoy day-long coffee breaks.

Oh ... my partner just reminded me they already enjoy day-long coffee breaks!
2

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 13:22:15
"1, LOL!!!!! Got it in one!
3

James (1),

15/08/2008 13:55:57
There will always be people like #1 who try to belittle the reasoning behind police objecting. #1 bases his decision on what exactly? Dislikes the police so anything they do must be to make life more difficult for people?
This will benefit smokers and not residents. They already have to put up with noise and whilst premises are sound proofed the same is cannot be said for drinkers on the street. Then again #1 and the like will not have to put up with that type of noise so why should they care.
4

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 13:58:18
This should not be up for dabate.

If a licenced premises is open, it should be allowed to permit drinking outside. They've got their stupid, brain-dead, nazi smoking ban. Where the hell are smokers supposed to drink now that they are not permitted to smoke inside due to the fascists?

Aside from that, almost every single country in the world has no problem with drinking on the pavement outside. Why should Scotland be any different?
5

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 13:59:55
James(1):

If you move in to a flat adjacent to a pub, you by implication accept that there will be more noise than in other locations. If you can't accept that, move out!

I have no sympathy for these moaners and whingers.
6

James (1),

15/08/2008 14:48:36
#5 But you appear to ignore the fact that some residents were there before pubs/clubs? So what are your words of wisdom for them?
Likely reply = silence!

Also by moving in does not indicate acceptance of all that happens in an area. It has never been a case of first there dicatates what is acceptable. For example before this article tables were not permitted outside after 9pm. Now it must be accepted by all that an extension to this must be allowed.

7

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 15:23:43
#6:

Some residents may have been there before some pubs and clubs, however they are few and far between. A pub or club suddenly springing up out of nowhere is an extremely rare occurrance in Edinburgh. A new licenced premises may be opened, but it is usually in an area where there are already other such places.

"Now it must be accepted by all that an extension to this must be allowed."

In the same way that the brain-dead smokng ban had to be accepted by all. As far as I am concerned tables and chairs should be allowed outside because there is no reason not to allow them. Quite simple really.
8

James (1),

15/08/2008 15:40:39
#7 You acknowledge the fact that residents could be there before the pub or club so what about them having to put up with this? Do we just ignore it?
You state this is few and far between based on what evidence? Guess work? Not really based on fact is it?

This new proposal means ALL RESIDENTS were there before it is introduced. If a pub decided to host rock bands every night, would that be acceptable because residents should have known and made allowances incase Led Zepplin, U2 or the like just happened to decide to play there.

The smoking ban is not comparible with table and chairs unless they ban smoking at these outside tables.
I would be asking for a ban because why should I have to put up with inconsiderate smokers whilst I sit and enjoy my drink outside. My health is more important than your addiction.
9

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 16:32:39
"You acknowledge the fact that residents could be there before the pub or club so what about them having to put up with this? Do we just ignore it?"

Yes.

"You state this is few and far between based on what evidence?"

Common sense, coupled with simply looking around the place a bit. I know of no new bars or clubs that have suddenly sprung up in previously quiet, leafy streets.

If they don't like Led Zep there's something wrong with them anyway :-)

Ban smoking at outside tables???? Get a life! I could say that my attitude to whinging non-smokers regarding outside tables is that if you're not going to smoke f**k off inside. After all, that is effectively what some people are saying to us regarding smoking inside.

Oh for a return to the days of normality and tolerance.
10

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 15/08/2008 16:40:06
I really cannot believe the fact that a restriction has been relaxed and people are up in arms about it!!!

Just what kind of country do you all want to live in? It's as though people crave rules and regulations these days---maybe because they cannot decide for themselves what to do without someone saying "Don't do this... Do that... You're only allowed to do this until... that isn't permitted..."

FOR CHRISTS SAKE SCOTLAND!!! WAKE UP!!!!
11

James (1),

15/08/2008 17:21:44
#9 So the people there before the pub are to be ignored just because it suits you? That is why we need laws. People like you think, wrongly, that they can just ignore others and do what they like. Wrong and that is why we have so many new laws. Making legislation keeps people like you in your place. A wonderful thing.
By looking around? So you know that all the residents next to pubs have only just moved in? Of course you do as it helps your argument. Based on nothing but a " I suppose" theory. Anyway it is not about new pubs its about new conditions being applied which inflicts the pubs and their customers onto public streets. It reduces the footways for the general public. You know, the majority.
We need to ban smoking in areas that the general public are together. That means tables outside pubs. Why should a filthy habit be imposed on non smokers?
12

James (1),

15/08/2008 17:30:35
#10 "Just what kind of country do you all want to live in?"
One where people obey the laws.
You have shown time and again that you believe you are above the normal laws that society abide by. Drive as fast as you want because you are a safe driver. Smoke where you want because it should be your choice. Oops, sorry that is not the case. You smoke where you are told to smoke. You drive at the speed you are told to drive or else the speed camera will get you.
You are the reason we need cameras.
People with you attitude NEED to be told what to do because if not you ignore others.
Long live a lawful society!
13

Regular visitor,

Cheshire 15/08/2008 20:21:43
The extended drinking hours in England have produced morning scenes of vomit, urine, used condoms, smashed glass, broken windows and blood being a common sight on the streets. The police are worse than useless, picking on soft targets, leaving the 'OK Corral' scene pub to slug it out. We will get used to it, just as we are complacent over the surveillance society in which we live, cameras everywhere. Short of drafting in Judge dread thats the way of it. The council sweeper does not object though since he gets to find and keep all wallets found......

 

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