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Rising costs of food, fuel and home energy spur inflation on to 2.2%



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Published Date: 13 February 2008
ROCKETING petrol prices, gas bills and food costs pushed inflation above the government's target for the fourth month in a row during January.
The consumer prices index (CPI), the official inflation measure, rose to 2.2 per cent – up from 2.1 per cent in December and the highest level since last June – while the retail price index, which includes mortgage interest payments, rose to 4.1 per cent from 4 per cent.

Further rises are expected soon as the recent round of double-digit electricity and gas bill increases takes effect, but experts said price growth was not as swift as some had feared, boosting hopes of further interest rate cuts later this year.

The biggest culprit was fuel, which rose at its highest annual rate since records began more than 11 years ago, according to the Office of National Statistics (ONS). Average petrol prices rose by 1.3p in January to stand at 103.9p per litre.

Food prices leapt 6.1 per cent – their highest rate since June 2001 – with the cost of fruit suffering the sharpest rises. However, cut-price deals on clothes and shoes at high street stores in the dismal run-up to Christmas prevented inflation from rising higher.

The Bank of England cut UK interest rates last week to 5.25 per cent from 5.5 per cent in an attempt to prevent a major slowdown in the economy. But the Bank signalled it was unlikely to cut rates as sharply as the US Federal Reserve – which has slashed borrowing costs to 3 per cent – because of fears that inflation would continue to rise.

However, Howard Archer, of analysts Global Insight, said: "We do not expect the Bank to cut interest rates again until May, unless it becomes clear that growth is slowing substantially. We expect interest rates to fall to 4.5 per cent by the end of the year as we believe the economy will see extended below-trend growth and this will eventually contain inflation."

The ONS said it was changing its method of calculation to reflect more quickly the impact of increases, including gas and electricity rises from the day they are introduced instead of phasing in increases over a four-month period.

Five major energy providers have so far raised energy prices, with Npower the first to introduce rises at the beginning of last month, followed by EDF, British Gas, ScottishPower and EON.

Economists are forecasting the rises could push the CPI above 2.5 per cent, straying further away from target and closer towards "letter-writing territory" for the Bank of England.

Mervyn King, the Bank's governor, has to write an open letter to the Chancellor if the CPI is more than 1 per cent above or below the 2 per cent target. He has warned that rising inflationary pressures this year could see him write one, or possibly more, letters.

RICE RISE MAKES CURRY COSTLY
THE cost of a curry is on the rise due to massive increases in rice prices.

Alex Waugh, director of the Rice Association, said prices were up 60 per cent year on year and the price of basmati rice, one of the most popular varieties in the UK, had almost doubled.

Producers such as India, China, Vietnam and Egypt had restricted their exports, and there were now "rapidly declining stocks" in the world. Thailand and the United States were now the main suppliers to the world market, he said. This would feed into the price British consumers pay for rice at shops and in restaurants.

Mr Waugh said: "If you are a restaurant owner and you are buying a lot of rice, you either reduce your margins or put your prices up."

Britain imports around 200,000 tonnes of rice every year.

The full article contains 645 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

The Strategist,

13/02/2008 01:01:06
Can we grow rice in Scotland?
2

Charles Linskaill,

.Edinburgh 13/02/2008 01:23:47
What Nonsense! 'you know' us,
'Muppet's' don't even 'Squeak' these days!
£8.00 a gallon for fuel.?
'Yes sir no sir three bags full sir'
And this is what we have all become!
The 'YES' People!
£2.00 for a loaf of Breed,?
God man!,, 'what a deal' I will have Twenty!
£1.50 for a pint 'O' Milk,?
God man!,, 'what a deal' I will have thirty!

God man!,, 'YES' we are 'NO-BRAIN'ERS.!!!!!
3

Charles Linskaill,

.Edinburgh 13/02/2008 01:25:03
What Nonsense! 'you know'...
Us,..'Muppet's' don't even 'Squeak' these days!
£8.00 a gallon for fuel.?
'Yes sir no sir three bags full sir'
And this is what we have all become!
The 'YES' People!
£2.00 for a loaf of Breed,?
God man!,, 'what a deal' I will have Twenty!
£1.50 for a pint 'O' Milk,?
God man!,, 'what a deal' I will have thirty!

God man!,, 'YES' we are 'NO-BRAIN'ERS.!!!!!
4

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 13/02/2008 07:30:08
Fuel is still too cheap. People still waste it: big cars, fast driving, unnecessary journeys, over heated homes, uninsulated homes,etc. Waste waste waste.
5

conservative,

13/02/2008 07:52:21
Don't complain about the price of food - remember our poor poor farmers (in their big cars and huge farmhouses #4).
6

sam the god,

13/02/2008 08:20:46
#5

how many farmers do you know? not many by your post.
7

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal News 13/02/2008 08:32:27
Perhaps the cost of 'Broon' perpetuating two wars, and an athletics drugs fest has something to do with it - the money could be better spent on better things.



Yours etc

Angus Whitton

8

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 08:55:15
#2 Crikey Charles, where do you buy your bread?

And while I'm here, fuel "rose at its highest annual rate since records began more than 11 years ago". 11 years ago?! I think I have better records than the ONS then, since I well remember the day when petrol hit £1 a gallon for the first time - hit the Hebrides first, when Edinburgh was still below 95p. My dad thought it was the end of the world.
9

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 13/02/2008 09:06:45
"Food is dearer" But what sort of food? caviar or porage? One can still eat healthily here on £1 a day if you care to. A local SM recently sold off out of date but quite OK winter vegetables for 10p. Enough for three meals of stew. Go to Darfur if you want to see real inability to survive. We don't know how lucky we are!
10

Tobydawg,

Alloa 13/02/2008 09:17:46
What has happened to Broon's "prudent" economy ???
11

Phil C,

13/02/2008 09:18:12
That 2.2% figure is just daft. Everything seems to have gone up much more, apart from my income! Many basic foodstuffs seem to have gone up by 20% or more.

Westminster is making a fortune out of us mugs with their fuel duty. They could have kept fuel price virtually steady, by cutting their percentage take, though not cutting the take from the tax.

Energy costs...don't even start!

We are being sucked dry by an incompetent government from Westminster.

The only thing that is level is my fixed rate mortgage, and that's about to change much for the worse.

The council tax freeze will be welcome, and cheaper prescriptions, and a bit saved on the Fife bridges. Oh I forgot these are local initiatives. There does seem to be light at the end of the Scottish tunnel.

I reckon the hidden 'real' inflation figure must be well over 10% and that we're being conned and lied to by our Labour superiors...and there's worse to come as we have to pay for their unaffordable spending plans for years to come.

Independence now from these charlatans and thieves!
12

Liz,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 10:08:17
#11
you want Independence?!

Do not forget that the clown who has been in charge (either as Chancellor and now PM) for the past 11 years and is responsible for a large part of this mess is Scottish.
(and don't forget that Tony Blair was born and educated up here - a point on this board that many on these comment boards seem to ignore/dismiss)

But I agree the inflation figure is a joke - when EVERYTHING is reported in the media as "going up at more than the rate of inflation" it does make me question if the offical figures for inflation have been manipulated. If they were not fiddling the books we would have to have more realistic (higher) interest rates.

13

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 10:11:16
#11 Phil, where exactly do you think the SNP is getting the money to pay local authorities for your lovely "council tax freeze"?
14

treacleswamp,

13/02/2008 10:18:31
Has anything except flat screen tvs gone up by less than CPI? This has always been a ridiculous politically defined measure. RPI at 4.1% is a sensible measure of inflation.
15

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 10:19:24
If they stopped the blatant theft that is petrol, alcohol and tobacco tax, then things would be restored to normal.

We should be paying no more than 50p per litre for petrol.
We should be paying no more than £5 for a bottle of vodka
We should be paying no more than £2.50 for a packet of 20 cigarettes

The government could stop inflation tomorrow if it wished.
16

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 10:20:17
#15 Why would you want to stop inflation?
17

Phil C,

13/02/2008 10:28:48
#12 Liz

I'm thoroughly ashamed of the countrymen you mention. They have been tainted by the Labour gene though! There are lots of Labour numpties in Scotland, who have held us back for many years. Blair (educated in a school for upperclass twits!)could once talk a good talk, but Brown (properly educated) was always creepily and dishonestly prudent! I think Scotland would be much better run by an independent government that listened to the people and business, and used their strengths. There are plenty of them.

#13 It's called taxation silly!

There is a freeze on this unfair tax which is based on property not income until a fairer system is put in place. Do you not keep up with SNP progress? Your mind is more closed than that of a clam!
18

Iain's,

Barcelona 13/02/2008 10:31:08
Why do people in the UK put up with high fuel costs?

I only pay 70 pence a litre for petrol here in Spain. Spain is not an oil producing country. Diesel is even cheaper!

The UK public is being ripped off. It may not matter in London but the high prices are destroying the countryside.
Too bad, Spain will supply your food, and once you kill off all your farmers, the prices will go up and up and up.
Serves you right!



19

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 10:40:39
#18:

Quite right Iain.
20

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 10:41:37
#16:

...to stop prices continually spiralling upwards perhaps????
21

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 10:46:39
#17 You pointed to the council tax freeze as being welcome - presumably as a reduced tax burden on yourself? That was the implication of your original comment. I merely tried to point out that shifting the tax burden from property tax to income tax does not reduce the tax burden by a single penny.

Personally I think the centralisation which the SNP intends to bring - loss of accountability of local authorities, all tax being centrally raised - will have a significantly detrimental effect on local authority efficiency. But that's an argument for the future. My only point to you today is that the council tax freeze does not represent a saving on your tax burden, merely a slight shift in where it is taken from.
22

JayDeeTee,

13/02/2008 10:46:41
2.2% ???? We are being conned. The real inflation rate is well above this. The Government know this and they must be fudging the figures in an attempt to quell the masses. Time for Joe Public to wake up to this.
23

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 10:48:18
#20 I can understand a desire to limit inflation, but static prices would be very damaging to the UK's economy. We need a manageable rate of inflation in order to participate effectively in the global economy.
24

Phil C,

13/02/2008 10:48:21
#18 Iain's

Unfortunately, many Scots and other Brits have no guts! They keep getting shafted by Labour and Tory, and they keep going back for more!! The Spanish must know how to deal with fuel tax without robbing everybody blind...we don't and we are fuel producers! When there was a wee protest a few years back, it worked and Brown had to come off his high horse for a bit. Now Labour mobilises every policemen and spare soldier to stop protest. That's modern day Britain!

We have a chance in Scotland to do things better so what do we do?.....We manage to scrape a minority government for those who will change things for the better. 60% of voters went for the status quo!!! Things are improving but with so much destructive resistance from those who would rather have a train set in Edinburgh than health for our people. The hope is that many more now see the light.

25

Phil C,

13/02/2008 10:51:42
#21 Duncan "I merely tried to point out that shifting the tax burden from property tax to income tax does not reduce the tax burden by a single penny."

It does if you're on a low income!
26

Doh,

13/02/2008 10:51:45
#15 Duncan

Interesting point which you maybe raise by accident.

Inflation is quite redistributive sinec it affects those with wealth and savings far more than those with very little. Wages tend to rise in line with inflation but savings (sadly perhaps) get eroded.

It is no coincidence that after a prolonged period of low inflation the richer are richer and the poor are poorer.

I agree that real inflation felt by real people is much higher than the 2.2% - they need to adjust the figures by adjusting the basket.

The price of LCD TVs are falling but who really cares.
27

Paddi,

13/02/2008 11:01:43
CPI inflation is used to hide the real inflation figure which is nearer 4.5%. we all know that council taxes have gone up by way way ahead of this each and every year. Energy prices are crazy (where on earth is the competition commission?)the thing which keeps the index down is all the cheap stuff being imported from the far east. Broon puffs his chest out and claims to be the architect of low inflation/low, mortgages etc but when it goes all pear shaped it's "the world economy".

What we would all like to know is where has the money gone? Someone has already said paying for two illegal wars, add to this a massive massive proliferation of the govt (ex military) payroll, more and more civil servants in national and local govt doing more and more obscure, useless and worthless things. Also we still seem to have the most generous and easy to apply for welfare system (excluding pensions). Basically Broon has ****** the money up against the wall., after all this is the guy who sold tonnes and tonnes of OUR gold at $325 ounce (now $920)

TAXES WILL HAVE TO RISE, EXPECT MORE PAIN
28

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 11:05:48
#25 Okay, so now you're suddenly talking about redistribution. Excuse me for not quite following your darting logic. You started off complaining about fuel duty and the rising cost of food.

In which case, I quite agree that a shift from a property-based tax to an income-based tax will help those on low incomes. It will help those on no incomes at all, who own their large houses outright and still make full use of council services, even more.

But the point I was trying to make, and I hope you can accept it, is that freezing council tax, ending tolls on the bridge and reducing prescription charges are all being paid for out of the big bad taxes that the big bad Westminster government is wielding against us. If you want lower fuel duty, then which of these benefits would you like to end?
29

Phil C,

13/02/2008 11:21:20
#28 Fuel duty is about 2/3 of the price of fuel to us! The government rake in huge increases each time the price of oil goes up. This is the bit they could stop without it affecting the tax take and would make a huge difference to future prices and the other things you don't seem to like wouldn't hurt you.

One wee question before I go. Why are you so vehemently against the progress that the SNP are making in Scotland? Day after day you come on here picking fights by talking nonsense. With your one track 5 lanes to 2 , or tax the lower paid more, or it doesn't matter if prices go up etc etc.

I for one do not believe you are Scottish, nor have a social conscience, nor are you very nice! But hey who wants to be nice?
30

Liz,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 11:31:38
#29
Why is it that when someone expresses a dislike for the SNP and their policies are they branded as not being a Scot?!

In response to you comment at #17 my point is that you cannot blame everything on Westminster as so many of the top jobs (whether the people involved were in your opinion badly educated or not) are currently being done by Scots. If Scotland were Independent now, there would be a very high change that Gordon Brown would have been leader of Scottish Labour and hence either would have recently been or may again in the future been First/Prime Minister/President or whatever the constituion would have had him - so My Prudent would have messed Scotland up just as much as he is ruining the entire UK.
31

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 11:50:33
#29 Let me try this again: council tax freeze is costing the government around £100m. Tolls cancellation will cost us perhaps £200m this year. Prescription charge reductions will be of the order of £10 million.

This £310 million is funded by an increase in the block grant, which is funded by our taxes, chiefly income tax and corporation tax but also VAT, excise, fuel duty and business rates.

Increasing revenues from fuel duty mean increasing budgets for spending on freezing council tax and cutting tolls. Do you see?

Oh, and you don't believe I am Scottish because I don't support the SNP? Then you are an idiot, since you yourself in #24 identified that 60% of Scots (and I assume you were talking about those who voted, because the real percentage is far more) do not support the SNP.

For your information, I have been clear on certain SNP policies which I do support. Kenny MacAskill's proposed new approach to community sentencing is one; his proposed additional tax on alcohol off-sales is another. Sorry that this means I don't fall into your "SNP hater" pigeon-hole. You'll have to find some other insults.
32

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 13/02/2008 11:55:40
Of course taxes are rising. How else to pay for community charge freezes, elderly care, a new bridge, smaller classes, by-passes, dropping bridge tolls, etc?

The English taxpayer is subsididizing SNP follies de grandeur. Sooner or late the Barnet formulae con trick will be noted and the gravy train halted. Then watch out!
33

John south of Soutra,

13/02/2008 12:59:01
#32 - please enlighten us about these fantastic subsidies we recieve and if it is the case why are the Govt so frightened or Independance, surely that would be benefit to England. I notice that you never mention how much everyone subsidises London in your statements, who do you think is paying for the regeneration of the East End that is masquerading as the London Olympics.
Liz I think that you need to define in your head the difference between Westminster and Holyrood the fact that there are so many Scots in the top jobs is a more a reflection of the English MPs available than anything else. As for Gordon Brown, he may well have been leader of the Scottish Labour party but that is hypothetical just as the fact that he may well have not been nor even been elected as an MSP
34

Queen D,

Glagsow 13/02/2008 13:17:29
Might I refer you all to the Scottish Independence
Convention blog site ?
Makes for most interesting reading on finance in Scotland.
Also has a delightful piece on the wisdom of Rabbie burns.

In flation must be standing at far more than stated , i'd go for nearer 8% and rising.
35

Phil C,

13/02/2008 13:19:59
#30 Liz
This isn't just 'someone'. This is 'Duncan in Edinburgh' I'm branding a non-Scot. You've every right to be Scottish or any other nationality and not support the SNP. I just wish more in Scotland did support them. I'd like the London Labourites to be irrelevant to what we do, Scottish or not!

#31 Duncan
I understand the tax system thanks! We all know that the money comes from somewhere. It's about where you collect it. I'd prefer if it was raised directly from, and spent solely in, Scotland though. That's for later though!

I said in #24 that 60% of VOTERS (not Scots) went against the SNP last year! Voters in Scotland include many people who came here from elsewhere, English, Irish, other European, American etc etc who are quite properly entitled to vote. I still don't understand why so many are so frightened and timid to go for independence, but that's your right.

We will never progress while so many stick rigidly to their views. I do think that things are changing with every piece of SNP common sense initiative that is announced. As the old die and the young start to vote I think you will see a change and Scotland will one day be it's own nation.

You shouldn't be so touchy! I just said, amongst other things, I didn't believe you were a Scot. I would never expect non-Scots to have the same passion for Scotland as real Scots. Nor would I expect all real Scots to have the same nationalist feelings. It doesn't work like that. Nor would I expect anyone to have the fervent anti-SNP rhetoric which you so often display, even if you do like some of their initiatives. We're not going to kick anyone out, so stop worrying. While you have a perfect right to your views, they are somewhat devalued if you are not Scottish.

Tell me you're Scottish and I'll say sorry!

36

Ellie,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 13:30:54
If we're going down memory lane I remember 1960ies when we got 4 gallons to the £ - mind you we weren't on 1K per annum either yet.
37

Liz,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 13:43:17
#33
My point is that everyone is winging about the Westminster Government but the fact is that MP's representing Scottish Consituancies are overrepresented (based on numbers) in the top jobs - there is nothing wrong with this per se, but many up here forget that it is Scots who are directly involved with some of the more contrevertial decisions and a certain mr prudent is about to be unmasked as one of the UK's worst Chancellors ever.
38

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 13:44:16
#35 There are two types of SNP supporter on these forums in my experience. The minority, sadly, are those who will rationally, and often passionately, argue their case on policies from independence to tolls. The majority are simple-minded moral nationalists who consider that anyone who doesn't believe in independence, Salmond as god-king and the utter evil of the Labour-unionist conglomerate must be anti-Scottish, and is probably in the pay of some English overlord.

You appear to fall into the latter category.

You therefore have not addressed my political point, which is that the fuel duty which you want to reduce is paying for the policies which you support. Instead you have attacked me on a nonsense point of your own invention.

And so we get onto this old old subject, because there, in the middle of your comment, is the phrase "real Scots". And you want to know if I am a "real Scot" because you want to turn your political opinion into some rhetorical fervour.

The SNP is just a minority political party, like Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories. They no more carry the mantle of "real Scot" than do any of the others. You have no more right to brand people as "real Scots" than you have to tell me what to think.

As I have said before, I can trace my ancestry as far back as my great, great, great grandfather, who was a Baillie in Edinburgh in the 1800s. But other strands of my family tree come from England and Ireland. Do I consider myself Scottish? Yes. Am I a "real Scot" by your reckoning? Frankly I couldn't give less of a damn. You are a throwback, a simpleton taken in by nationalist rhetoric, and whether I fit your belief of what a "real Scot" is or no is of no consequence whatsoever.
39

GP,

13/02/2008 14:05:54
Duncan Edinburgh - I have never heard so much tripe in all my life. Inflation has nothing to do with static prices and indeed prices can remain static whilst profit increases through reduced manufacturing costs.
Inflation is not good for any economy and is always worse for those poorer in our society than the wealthy.
The fact that the block grant is being used in a different way thus freezing council tax, which is highly overpriced as it is is a good thing. The follow on must be job redcution within local authorities whilst encouraging local businesses to create new jobs.
This can be done through low rates and corporation tax etc. the days of spend spend spend are over and at last the vast majority have woken up to the fact that we cannot afford to continue with service jobs and no real value add jobs.


Rulesbutnotrulers - linking this to Darfur is a leap into or from crap. There is absolutlety zero realtionship between the two and if you think there is then you should go there and remain.
40

truthsleuth,

13/02/2008 14:11:00
Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

And income tax would be 50p in the pound

Me I prefer lots of tax on petrol and other 'non essentials' with low/no tax on food, domestic fuel and good public transport and health service etc.
I can then decide whether to make that journey and how to make it.
Yes I know the rural lobby will squeal 'they have no alternative to the car.
Consider this
Rural Living - quiet and clean air , except for the cows and tractors.
Urban living - noisy polluted crowded
As foir farmers they use red diesel - in their tractors (What do they use in the lorries they park on their farm ?)
Rural Living - mpg 40 plus av speed 40plus
Urban living - mpg 30 or less av speed 30 or less

These are actual as I do both types of driving.

41

Liz,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 14:26:37
#40
But many wages in rural areas are low (yes I know there are all the rich retired folk but I do not count them) there really is no alternative to the car in many areas so people can become stretched financially.

Farmers may use red diesel in their tractors but have you ever paused to think exactly how much fuel a tractor uses? The price (I am told) is now about 50ppl, a couple of years ago it was about 25p. With farm incomes still pathetically low (depite what the less informed will tell you) this can have a big effect.
42

Phil C,

13/02/2008 14:48:12
You're obviously an 'incomer' (nothing wrong with that) so I will not apologise, but I hereby appoint you, in my own simpleton kind of way, a 'confused' Scot who's only a wee bit 'real'. You obviously like it here so stop annoying everyone so! Away and clear that congestion at the Forth Bridge. I can just see you with a wee flashing light on your head and a white coat. See if you can set up a working merge system!

On the rest we'll have to differ as usual. And by the way, I've not once advocated a cut in fuel duty, just a freeze on further increases. The government have received far more than was forecast and it's time to stop fleecing the motorist and haulier, regardless of what the green ones say!
43

Phil C,

13/02/2008 14:49:04
Sorry #42 was for Duncan #38
44

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 14:50:03
#39 Inflation has nothing to do with prices? What do you mean?

Also, inflation is good for a borrowing economy, it is not good for a lending economy.

In any event, like Phil C you sidestep the point - you cannot point to tolls removal and prescription charge reductions as reductions in the tax burden when they are paid for by tax!
45

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 14:57:34
#42 Don't you get it? I don't care whether you think of me as a "real Scot", an "incomer" or a Peruvian tobacconist. I'm telling you that no political party has the right to claim Scottishness for themselves. I'm saying that your use of the phrase "real Scot" is unhelpful, childish and damaging to political discourse. I'm asking you to grow up.
46

Norma,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 15:11:01
I would really like to know who calculates the Goverment's inflation costs. Who ever they are, please come and organise my finances immediately, because my rapidly escalating outgoings seem to be racing ahead of my rapidly diminishing income - they just don't add up, by any strectch of the imagination, to 2.2%!
47

Iain's,

Barcelona 13/02/2008 15:11:51
In reply to Phil and others.

I think that Spain is probably a freer society than the UK.

OK they learnt the hard way and hell only froze over 30 years ago.

But the Spaniards appreciate their freedom and want to keep it.

By the standards of here, Brits put up with the most incredible lack of freedom. AND You are taxed to the limit and accept it.
Your government lies to you and you elect them again. That did NOT happen here.

The 'Popular Party', PP, were thrown out for being economic with the truth (or being misguided) at the last election.
You lot re-elected Tony /Gordon despite WMD, Kelly and all that. Only Scotland seemed to see the light.












48

Phil C,

13/02/2008 15:15:02
#45 Confused 'Scot' in Edinburgh

'Real' Scots are people who were born and bred here. They have a passion in their hearts. It is not a political tag. The SNP are political and represent the interests of Scotland, not the UK like other parties. Some real Scots do not support the SNP or independence. I think many are dissuaded by long-held, and in my view, dubious churchy and unionist views. You will not find many in the SNP who are not real Scots.

So when you've sorted the Forth Bridge, why don't you go sell fags in Peru? There's a shortage of stubborn and argumentative ciggy-sellers there!
49

Iain's,

P:S: 13/02/2008 15:23:52
#46
Norma,

The Government calculates inflation costs.

Now one does not have to be a genius to realise that their figures are false.

I understand that the shopping basket takes the cost of laptops into account. Why? - well laptops are coming down in price.

Government accounting in the UK is totally false. For example: PFI, a system of enriching big business at the expense of the tax payer, is 'off balance sheet' this means that the liabilities do not appear in the government´s books, the assets, however do appear in the PFI companies' books. AND THEY ARE COINING IT!

I have worked in a PFI company and they budgeted for 30% clear profit. (i.e additional cost to the taxpayer).
If they don't achieve that profit, they sell the PFI contract on to a non-resident company based in a tax haven.

Get a subscription to 'Private Eye' and read what I can´t tell you.

If you were not sheep, you would not be shorn.



50

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 15:34:39
#49 Just a minor point: while your characterisation of many PFI projects is in general correct - private industry coining it at the expense of the public purse - it is not the case that all PFI is 'off balance sheet'. Only those projects where there is no Treasury exposure to risk are off the public balance sheet. Where there is risk, they are on balance sheet.
51

Iain's,

13/02/2008 15:45:54
And you really believe tis Duncan!
52

Iain's,

13/02/2008 15:48:22
p.s. The whole point of PFI is that THERE IS NO RISK.

The taxpayer will pick up the tab every time.
53

Iain's,

13/02/2008 15:48:29
p.s. The whole point of PFI is that THERE IS NO RISK.

The taxpayer will pick up the tab every time.
54

Liz,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 15:50:00
"'Real' Scots are people who were born and bred here."

I think you are wrong and narrowminded - there are plenty of 'unreal Scots' to use your terminalogy(whether originly English/Irish/Welsh or a mix or even from further afield) who have settled here and want the best for Scotland. There are also plenty of 'real' Scots who have thought better of that and have bu****** off and live elsewhere, one prize vocal SNP supporting prat comes to mind (I wont name him but if he thinks Scotland is so great why does he live in Barbados?!)

What are you suggesting? that only the opinion of people who can trace both sides of their family back several generations of 'real' Scots are allowed to have their say?!
55

malkster,

Scotland 13/02/2008 16:20:15
#48

Jawhol mein fuhrer. what a stupid littm man you are, i can trace my roots back hnundreds of years but do not support independence. A neighbour of mine only came here 10 years ago and is a fervent nationalist. Both are entitled to our opinions and both consider ourselves Sccottish. Don't play the race card.
56

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 13/02/2008 16:34:27
The real Scots are those descended from the alien invaders called the Scotti.

All aboriginal/indigenous souls here are Britons, descendants of those several tribes who shared one culture and language etc, when Caesar arrived to break it all up. Thank goodness most of us are trying hard to restore national unity rather than alien tribal separatism.
57

BMeister,

13/02/2008 16:39:02
#48
What a narrow-minded view you have of 'real' Scots. I am of Scottish descent but wasn't born here as my dad was stationed in Yorkshire at the time but was raised here from the age of 18 months. Yet by your definition I cannot be really Scottish and am unlikely to be a nationalist. And those English SNP MSPs, bit of an anomoly there? How were they allowed into the party?

Robert the Bruce's birthplace is probably the South-west of Scotland but may well have been Essex. Let's hope not eh?
58

Phil C,

13/02/2008 16:57:37
#54,5,6,7 What I was saying was that being a 'real' Scot is a gut thing. The born and bred bit was wrong. I simply meant that you had to feel part of the place and that not many in the SNP were not 'real' Scots. I also said that everybody was entitled to their view, even Duncan. He's elusive about his nationality and I was trying to jab him into some passion....and encourage him to go to Peru!
59

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 17:07:07
#58 You still don't get it do you? The SNP doesn't represent anything but a set of political views, just like any other party. It's not about how Scottish a person is, how real a Scot they are, how passionate they are, what sort of gut feeling they have or whether they feel part of the place. It is dishonest and dangerous to associate essentially patriotic and nationalist sentiment with a single political party. I can be a patriotic Scot and a supporter of any political party.

I don't need jabbing into passion, especially not by an idiot, thank you. And I'm not going anywhere. If you want to convince me of something, you can start by not talking so much crap.
60

Phil C,

13/02/2008 17:29:40
#59 I do get it. We just don't seem to agree on anything. I think it does matter how Scottish someone is and more importantly how nationalistic they feel. Most who combine the two will support the SNP and will hopefully achieve independence one day. I just don't understand how they all don't. Get it?
61

Liz,

Edinburgh 13/02/2008 17:33:01
#60
But surely you must accept that there are many 'Real' Scots who feel very Nationalistic but have the opinion (rightly or wrongly) that Scotland is best off maintaining the Union with England and remaining in the UK.
You seem to be suggesting consistantly that to be a 'proper' Scot you must support Independence.
62

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 13/02/2008 17:43:59
#59 ...#61..... It is obvious that you are both court jesters for your English masters and that you are happy to hold on to mother England's apron strings whilst you wait patiently for the crumbs from John Bull's table. Well! I have news for you ! People like your good selves are fast becoming a minority here in Scotland,and the day is fast approaching when you will have to stand on your own two feet without looking over your shoulder for mother England's hand outs. Phoblacht na Alba go brugh!
63

Phil C,

13/02/2008 17:49:16
Because we're a people without a country until we get independence. How so many of my fellow Scots can live with that is beyond me! We're a people with a rich history of imagination and discovery. We have the natural and human resources to power a strong economy! We don't need Trident etc to be foisted on us. And if you don't feel 'Scottish' you won't care and will be happy to be Westminster's golden poodle and in turn sit on George Bush's lap as the poodle's toenail!
64

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 13/02/2008 18:00:57
#33 I agree with your comments about the vast sums of cash going to London for the Olympics etc.. Although I live an hour away from London my heart sank when I heard they had got the Olympics as I believed (and still do) that it would be far easier and cheaper for us to get to Paris. London is one the biggest rip off cities in the world, however there are so many people there earning huge salaries that they are oblivious to the increasing cost of anything. I believe politicians come into that category with their apparently unlimited expenses and are now removed from the world that most of their constituents inhabit. The Northern Rock fiasco might well have saved the taxpayers a fortune if it had been left to the banking world to sort it out. It would not have been in any of their interests to see one of their own kind in trouble, but the money from the public purse has been grossly abused by our dear leader. The cost of policing in London, particularly in the area between Westminster and Downing Street must be higher than that of an entire city in Scotland and more police can be seen in that area at any time of the day than you will see in Edinburgh in a year. However, the cost of transport is certainly adding heavily to the ridiculously low inflation figure issued by the government. The anomaly is that the better the public transport in an area, the cheaper will be the petrol. Anyone living outside of major cities knows that only too well. Supermarkets have national price structure for the goods on their shelves so it odd that petrol is priced at the highest level they dare charge in an area. We,the commoners, can only stand and take on the chin everything that is thrown at us. We know we are being conned but are helpless to do anything about it. My apologies if I have digressed from the subject but there are times I despair for the country and those who control it.
65

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 18:12:48
#63 Do you actually believe this rubbish you type?

A people without a country? What the hell do you think the UK is? You're talking like a Braveheart Nat, sunshine. All rhetoric and no substance.

We are indeed a people with a rich history of imagination. And our history stretches from Lands End to John O'Groats. We don't have anything foisted upon us - we voted for the UK government that we have! We're part of a democracy!

Do you want the parts of Scotland that voted Labour to be hived off? Do you want the parts of England that voted Tory to go independent? What about when Fife elected a Communist - would you have argued for a declaration of independence for the Kingdom?

You are living in a fantasy world in which Scotland is somehow under the jackboot of an occupying power. You have literally no idea what this might be like in reality, but let me tell you, this isn't it. We vote in free elections, and in the UK elections more Scots voted for Labour than for any other party, and we have a Labour government. There is nothing imposed about it.
66

Phil C,

13/02/2008 19:11:58
Duncan, the UK is an amalgamation of 3 and a 1/2 countries known worldwide as England. The only bit I like in your nonsense is the 'free elections' bit. The hope is that the penny will drop with the majority of Scots and we can get ourselves our own place. It's the basic right that people should live in his or her own country. My belief is that we're getting it back from our 'occupier' sooner than you would imagine!
67

Phil C,

13/02/2008 19:16:39
Oh and I liked the Braveheart Nat bit...



.......FREEDOM!!!
68

dave yae fife,

13/02/2008 19:59:41
In the modern world people who live in scotland and want to be part of the community are scots. The problem that independance will cure hopefully is drain of people who have to leave scotland due to the lack of opertunity here.
69

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 20:04:43
#66 Who the hell is occupying us? We are governed by people we elected. There is simply no logic to your position. We live in our own country!

Tell me this, if you can: do you support the SNP's policy of membership of the EU? If so, do you support the development of a federalist EU, or do you want the EU to stay as it is? If not, then what do you see as Scotland's future sources of business growth?
70

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 20:05:27
#68 And what opportunities will independence create?
71

Phil C,

13/02/2008 20:52:50
#69

Duncan, you ask "Who the hell is occupying us?"!

Unionists like you, ya dafty!! Goodnight.
72

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/02/2008 20:59:29
#71 You're telling me I'm occupying myself? And *I'm* the dafty?
73

SCOT JOCK,

SCOTLAND 13/02/2008 21:00:26
A GUID NIGHT TAE YE ALL.

 

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