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Surprise victory for banks in legal battle over charges

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Published Date: 25 November 2009
MILLIONS of consumers' hopes of reclaiming unauthorised overdraft charges were dashed today when the banks won a surprise victory in the Supreme Court.


Losing the appeal could have cost the banks £2.6 billion a year

The UK's highest court ruled the charges do not come under "unfair contract" rules, meaning they are not subject to regulation by the Office of Fair Trading.

The ruling, which was described as a "bitter blow" for customers, who will not now be able to reclaim money they had paid out in the charges, ends a test case on the issue started more than two years ago.

More than one million claims have been put on hold since the case was launched in 2007, while a further eight million people are estimated to have paid the charges since July 2001, but not yet submitted a claim to get their money back.

Which? chief executive Peter Vicary-Smith said: "This is a bitter blow for the millions of people who have been patiently waiting to get their bank charges back.

"Not only does it give banks licence to charge what they like for unauthorised overdrafts, but it could have ramifications for other areas of personal finance.

"The banks now have no excuse for introducing other fee charges."

But the ruling was better news for consumers who do not breach their overdraft limit or go into the red without permission, as it was feared a verdict against the banks would have heralded the end of free banking in the UK.

Unauthorised overdraft charges generate around £2.6 billion of revenue a year for banks.

Industry commentators had warned that if the banks lost this lucrative income stream they would look for other ways to recoup it, such as through imposing a flat monthly fee on current account customers or charging for every transaction people carried out.

The Supreme Court also offered a glimmer of hope to consumer groups, saying that although unauthorised overdraft charges do not come under the "unfair contract" rules, the OFT may be able to assess them under other criteria.

The OFT said it was now considering the details of the judgment before it made a decision on whether or not to continue its investigation into the charges. It plans to make a statement on the issue next month.

Martin Lewis, creator of MoneySavingExpert.com, said: "It wasn't a loss, the OFT fought on the wrong clause.

"The initial shock reaction by the crowd in the court, thinking that the banks had won, obscured what was perhaps the most important part of the judge's final statement, that the OFT may be able to look at fairness by another route."

Meanwhile, the Government said it was "determined" to ensure the system of unauthorised overdraft charges was made fairer for consumers in the future.

Sarah McCarthy-Fry, Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury, said: "The Government will work with the OFT and FSA to reach a new framework for fairer bank charges going forward."

She said it would try to reach a voluntary agreement with the banks, but warned that the Government would "take action" if this did not work.

Customers who go into unauthorised overdraft or breach their agreed limit can be charged as much as £35 or more for a single bounced payment. Campaigners claim the actual cost to the banks could be as little as £2.50.

But many of the high street banks had already changed the structure of the fees they charge people who go into the red, with or without permission, before today's ruling.

Prior to refund claims being frozen, some banks had already paid out more than £559 million to customers who complained about the charges.
Consumers who have already received refunds will not have to repay them as a result of today's ruling.

The test case was brought jointly by the OFT and Abbey, Barclays, Clydesdale, Halifax Bank of Scotland and Lloyds TSB, which are now part of the same group, HSBC, Royal Bank of Scotland Group and Nationwide Building Society.

Welcoming today's ruling, Angela Knight, chief executive of the British Bankers' Association, said: "The thing that is important about today's outcome is that there is clarity now in the law."

She added: "The banks do recognise the concerns of their customers and the wider concerns that have been raised by this case on unauthorised overdraft charges and we want to sort out this issue."



Page 1 of 1

 
1

Rosscobhoy,

25/11/2009 10:09:44
Theres a surprise.......
2

Chris,

Edinburgh 25/11/2009 10:26:03
#1: Maybe, but why should people, without permission, spend money they haven't got? In actual fact they are spending other people's money without permission.
If the banks had lost this case then it spelled the end of free banking and all of us would have had to pay to spend the money we do have.
The positive in this case is that the banks have been forced to reduce their charges for people overspending. That is a fair result.
3

BH,

25/11/2009 10:26:16
Disgraceful decision by the Supreme Court and clearly a political one made for economic reasons rather than on a point of law that has been passed by two previous court rulings.

Put simply, the Supreme Court has bought into banks' spin and scaremongering.

Quite how their decison differs so radically from not one, but two courts beggars belief. Banks can now name their own price for fees charged and there's little we can do about it - utterly outrageous!

The whole thing stinks! I wonder how many of the Lords who sat on the appeal court are shareholders in the major banks? Rotten, absolutely rotten...

Consumers again receive the short end of the stick against the big boys. Its now time the government gave consumers a choice about the need to have to use a bank account at all!
4

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 25/11/2009 10:47:52
#3 - Sorry, but I agree with 2 - why should I and others who manage our finances properly pay to subsidise feckless idiots who can't? These charges are for UNAUTHORISED overdafts - spending someone else's money without permission. If you 'borrow' goods from Tesco without permission, it's called 'theft'. As #2 says, it's a fair outcome - a score draw.
5

Utar Refson,

25/11/2009 11:08:27
A common sense result. An overdraft is a privilege, not a right and that privilege is extended under contract terms the recipient signs up for.

If there is something to take from this kerfuffle is the need for financial "literacy" education among the general populace. Taking into account the credit bubble bursting, the populace needs to be competent in financial matters.
6

Big T,

25/11/2009 11:15:42
Common sense at last!

People need to take responsibility for their own finances.

Why should the taxpayer and those who keep in the black have to pay for those living beyond their means!
7

Rosscobhoy,

25/11/2009 11:16:57
Chris, i don't disagree that people who go overdrawn should be charged, but thats not the whole argument. The fee's were entirely disproportionate to the actual costs to the bank. If you went a penny overdrawn due to an oversight, you could have ended up paying over £100 depending on your bank. That is wrong.
8

Zed's Dead,

25/11/2009 11:30:02
#7 - Rosscobhoy - the fews are not intended to represent the cost of the service. They are intended to be punitive. This is common business policy for most companies for things like late payments where the interest charged is much higher than the normal rate.

I agree with the posters that this is common sense. Everyone seems to want to retain the concept of "free" banking. Current account holders who manage their OWN cash effectively do not earn money for the banks. If others want to behave without the same care and attention and spend the banks (and my) money then I think it is only fair that they pay the fees that were contained in the fine print.

It is wrong that you do not agree to pay what you agreed to pay.
9

Zed's Dead,

25/11/2009 11:31:08
for post #8 - correction - "the fees....."
10

Zed's Dead,

25/11/2009 11:46:15
#3 - BH - you say "there is little we can do about it". Well actually there is.... Live within your means, manage your account balance and don't spend someone else's money.
11

Big T,

25/11/2009 11:49:08
#10

An Alien concept to thousands in this country who feel they are entitled to a new hi tec TV, sleek car, designer clothes and holidays in the sun, whether they can afford them or not!
12

Rosscobhoy,

25/11/2009 11:52:02
#8

As i said, i agree that some form of fee is correct but the levels being charged were far disproportionate to the cost involved. I was hit with massive charges after my phone company made a backside of my bill and had several charges applied as a result. The bank refused to look at this and grant me an overdraft which meant i had to wait for T Mobile to finally agree to pay the bank charges before i was back in the black, and that took 4 weeks of me constantly harassing them. Had it not been for the level of fees charged i would still have had cash in the account and been able to get on with life instead of having the bank send a letter every other day and me having to borrow to get by.
13

Lianachan,

Highlands 25/11/2009 12:08:01
#3 "Disgraceful decision by the Supreme Court and clearly a political one made for economic reasons rather than on a point of law that has been passed by two previous court rulings."

Yup, precisely.

#8 I was also shafted by the bank in very similar circumstances.
14

Lianachan,

Highlands 25/11/2009 12:08:28
#13 Sorry, comment was meant for #12, not #8.
15

hibbie,

Edinburgh 25/11/2009 12:11:35
Tough shiiit, we all know the rules when we open a bank account... manage your money and you have no problems ... simples
16

malcyh,

25/11/2009 12:21:19
Wonder what nonsense Martin Lewis will come out with now? Stay and spend within your means and you do not have a problem.
17

Big T,

25/11/2009 12:26:31
#16

Sounds good to me!
18

skatmanjohn,

West is best 25/11/2009 12:38:13
There's always at least one lame brain who misses the point, however theres more than a few who have already contributed to this collum. As a retired Banker I know that it is those least able to manage their finances that pay the most when the proverbial wheels come off. If you need a conspiracy theory I know of at least 5 suicides directly attributable to said wheels that were "suppressed". Every bank has a fund which you will not find in their balance sheet. Lets be clear, these charges are vicious and immoral and do nothing to help those whose situations are desperate. To the idiots who say that folk only have themselves to blame you are deluding yourselves. Grow up! Just wait till you are made redundant and see how you fair.
19

IainGlasgow,

25/11/2009 12:43:39
Well judges do work for the illuminati after all.

They're all freemasons, so are the bankers.
20

Big T,

25/11/2009 12:45:23
#18

I take it you were bumped by the bank rather than retired..........
21

skatmanjohn,

25/11/2009 12:53:44
Actually no...I retired on full service and a lovely pension. How about you BigT
22

Zed's Dead,

25/11/2009 12:58:33
#21 - Presumably as the "lovely pension" was accumulating you did not have the hypocrisy to denounce the charges income that helped to make the same pension possible.
23

Big T,

25/11/2009 12:59:30
#21

Well done. Lovely final salary pension means that you can adopt a nice holier than thow stance on this. The taxpayer and those who will not have the benefit of a bank pension on the other hand have to take a more realistic view!
24

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 25/11/2009 13:13:02
#18 Skatmanjohn.

Well said. The smugness and ignorance of some posters lead me to believe they have never had any dealings with banks unless of the piggy variety.

Worst move for customer (business and private) relations was the removal of real branch managers.
25

ddmc,

25/11/2009 13:13:10
#8 why should the fees be punative ? this was the point of the fairness arguement, yes a bank should not incur costs, but as the article admits banks make £2.6 billion a year from this, that's not punative that's major profits for shareholders. Which ultimately this new supreme court has endorsed, so as a previous poster points out whats to stop them changing the T&C's to £500 per overdrawn letter.
26

Big T,

25/11/2009 13:25:38
#24

Ooooh! Bitchy!

Size of your whopping overdraft getting to you.......?
27

skatmanjohn,

25/11/2009 13:30:09
Spot the Bank employees, come on guys own up shouldn't you be doing some real work? In answer to the criticism, you must be particularly small minded not to realise that "holier than thow" does not apply to the views I have expressed, based upon values which kept banks on the straight and narrow for over 200 years. Just look what you've managed to do to them in the last decade. I suspect that most of your customers, given a choice would gladly revert to the old fashioned ways, which whatever else, served shareholders and customers well enough at the time.
28

Zed's Dead,

25/11/2009 13:34:10
#25 - You make charges punitive to encourage people not to incur them. Quite simple really. For many of us it is quite fair when you consider that the bank offers free banking to those of us who stay in the black and manage balances. For no charge, bank customers expect a branch network, ATMs, cards, statements, telephone/online banking and the required back-end IT infrastructure. The provision of this service costs the bank to manage for all accounts. The alternative is that we all pay fees to banks for the privilege of having the levels of service that we have come to take for granted.

#24 - Far from being smug and ignorant I have been a bank customer for almost 30 years and ran things on a knife-edge through student days in the 80's with a very meagre grant. Most of us operate in the real world and not a priviliged financial position.

I accept the views of other posters who have been stung through no fault of their own and this is clearly something that needs to have better protection. My issue is with the entitlement society that demands the latest must-have consumer gizmos and behave in a financially reckless manner.
29

Ben Thehoose,

25/11/2009 14:04:59
This is good news for those of us who wish for free banking. Eejits (like me) who issue bouncing cheques should not expect anyone else to pick up the tab (the tab is a but steep mind, but it's taught me a lesson).
30

ddmc,

25/11/2009 14:47:44
#28 Fine, give me my wages in a pay packet with real money inside, banks would lose massive liquidity if we returned to pay packets.
Don't banks make money from just having people deposit money with them, remember banks even paid interest on current accounts for that privilage. The end of free banking is just another scare story from the banks to try & justify the blatent scam that are bank charges, which was the cause of all the court action in the first case.

At least we can see our new "supreme court" is firmly with the establishment.
31

Zed's Dead,

25/11/2009 15:49:47
#30 - I think this is more a matter for you to take up with your employer to negotiate a change in the mechanism for your remuneration
32

Oli,

Edinburgh 25/11/2009 16:04:24
Interesting! A lot of posters siding with the banks. A few points:

* No one is saying that people who go into an unauthorised overdraft shouldn't pay something, it's the question of whether the amounts the banks do charge are fair and representative of their costs - it's clear to any numptie that they're not!
* The banks were making a packet off this for years and years. The stories about the end of free banking if the banks had lost are just so much rot.
* In this day and age the technology should exist to flag transactions at the point of sale if they will take you into overdraft, i.e. the consumer could be offered the option to proceed or not. Or the transaction could simply be declined.

For me, this decision has all the hallmarks of a fit-up. Stopped at the very last hurdle, on a technicality, refused leave to appeal to the European courts, etc.
33

IainGlasgow,

25/11/2009 16:35:52
RBS have a very sneaky trick.

When a debit card payment or other transaction is taken off your account it doesn't show up on your online statement until the following day but then when it does appear it is dated as the previous day. This means that if you forgot the transaction was coming off (but you check your online statement daily) you have no opportunity to pay money in to cover it and avoid being charged for unauthorised overdraft even if its only a few pence over limit.

What I think all banks ought to do is have an overdraft buffer so you can exceed your agreed limit (by say 10% or £50 whichever is greater) for a limited period (e.g. 3 working days) at a higher interest rate (e.g. 20%).
34

El Franko,

25/11/2009 16:37:11
This is not a surprise, rather it is an upholding EUSSR laws accepted by that rump of a parliament in London.

See: http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/11/stunning-victory.html

Extract

'
According to the judgement handed down, the issue depended "on the correct interpretation (in its European context) and application of Regulation 6(2) of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 SI 1999/2083."

However, we then see that: "The 1999 Regulations were made under section 2(2) of the European Communities Act 1972 in order to transpose into national law Council Directive 93/13/EEC on unfair terms in consumer contracts." '
35

El Franko,

25/11/2009 16:38:28
Is there anyone awake at the Scotsman?
36

wellieboot,

Edinburgh 25/11/2009 17:00:25
Think of all these poor saps out there who've been running up bills in anticipation of getting all this money back (and probably puting it on the credit card too).

Muppets.
37

Duke,

25/11/2009 17:20:42
#33 I got caught by HBOS the same way. My online statement said I wasn't overdrawn, but their system said I was, and they liberated £30 from my account. After some arguing I got my money back. No doubt a nice big brown paper bag, stuffed full of money found its way to the Supreme Court, just to ensure the 'right' decision was made.
38

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 25/11/2009 17:42:55
This Stinks. It's about time customers started boycotting banks in order to get a really powerful message across to the masters of greed...The OFT are in the pockets of the money men and so are the courts...
39

Ugly George,

25/11/2009 17:55:10
I am not a fan of the banks but in this instance I support them.

Those who go into unagreed overdraft only have themselves to blame. All it needs is elementary budgeting skills and/or a quick phone call or login on website to avoid this situation occurring.

Going into an unagreed overdraft is nothing less than attempting to pay for something which money you do not have. Under normal legal processes this would constitute fraudulent activity and be subject to criminal prosecution. A relatively small bank charge is a light penalty by comparison.
40

Mèths,

25/11/2009 17:56:43
To all those with UNAUTHORISED overdrafts and charges, may I offer a heartfelt TOUGH.
41

Ugly George,

25/11/2009 17:58:51
oops sorry - error in post 39

First sentence in third paragraph should read "pay for something with money you do not have"
42

Ugly George,

25/11/2009 18:01:48
40 meths

Absolutely.

Am I the only one who thinks this whole campaign is yet another sad case of people trying to blame others for their own shortcomings.
43

McKevvy,

Glenrothes 25/11/2009 18:27:31
#18.

I agree completely. Those who are smug today may well find themselves in need of financial help tomorrow - we don't know just whats around the corner (just look at the speed that we slumped into the current recession as an example).
Some people have been hammered by these charges and have have had no control over the causes of them. The days of when the bank manager actually knew a person from a financial point of view are sadly over. Enter the era of tick-box loan applications and credit via the phone and it's a route to disaster for personal finance.
The proof of the current controversy will be in the prevention measures (if any) that come out of this state.
44

Barnacle Goose,

Here for the winter 25/11/2009 21:21:42
Let's just say I know a little about this.

The fact is that whilst I think the banks charges are a little steep most of the evidence I have seen is of people who frankly are extracting the Michael from the banks. They continually go overdrawn beyond any agreement. They have Sky television, they run two cars, they have large mortgages, they eat out all the time, they spend money like it is going out of fashion and are determined to maintain high street stores by themselves. Believe me, you would be shocked when you see how they spend what is not their money. Then they complain.

Banks are in business to make money, we seem to have got mixed up between banks and local savings banks somewhere along the line.
45

Gene Pooll,

25/11/2009 21:31:07
Anyone wanting to get away from these fraud banks go to http://www.thinkbanking.co.uk
No charges but a monthly fee.
No traps like HBOS who book the outgoing payments am and the incoming pm. But the statements do not show any unauthorised overdraft.
It is a criminal way of making money. And now they can go on with new ideas how to rip people off!

By the way, why is everybody speaking of unauthorised overdrafts?
Banks like HBOS & RBS don't do unauthorised overdrafts. They book the payments back (automatically) on the same day, and then charged £30 - £39 up to three times a day! I was charged £35 because my bus ticket was debited one day earlier and I went over £1.50. They booked it back so it was not paid and I had to pay the charge.
Let's remember some facts here, as the media paint a simple black and white picture so they can sell a story:
1st. It's a couple of numbers for a short time on a account/paper. There is no money involved. No person or company has any damage. No real living person has any hassle apart from the postie who carries out the mail anyway.
2nd. Sounds like some people think you get a unauthorised overdraft for weeks/months. Never has a bank given me a unauthorised overdraft!
3rd. It's interesting how often the media speak of a "penalty". Banks never had the rights to charge penalty fines. They can only take a fee. That would be about £3.
But, typical. Everybody wants to comment allthough they have no idea what they are talking about.
46

Gene Pooll,

25/11/2009 21:31:29
Again -

http://www.thinkbanking.co.uk

http://www.thinkbanking.co.uk

47

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/11/2009 22:04:28

Oh the politics involved, with about 1.3billion customers claiming for their unfair bank charges back, for over many years, and our banks volatile position, none the wonder the outcome.



48

Oli,

Edinburgh 25/11/2009 22:52:09
What?
49

Master of conspiracies,

25/11/2009 22:57:29
A lot of posts here siding with the banks, arguing that people have to be responsible for their finances. That is fair enough. Now, I assume the irresponsible banks will be dropping a fee into the bank account of every taxpayer who has had no option but to cough up to bail them out because they did exactly the same thing and went overdrawn. If not, why not?
50

bumpkin,

25/11/2009 23:57:33
observer and scatman, i am with you both.
banks are just runaway roullettte players, trading onsolvent, obtaining rights issues by fraud etc etc.
if you put in a cheque the same day a debit is due, they will bounce it and earn £66, even though their technology now clears a cheque in 6 hours.
Australian banks which are not bust like ours can clear cheques the same day, but uk banks wont adopt the technology, as they get free use of our money for 3 days to gamble on derivatives.
51

bumpkin,

25/11/2009 23:59:33
oh and all you saints who never go overdrawn, why should you get free banking, paid for by the less well off?

 

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