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Breakdown of Sabbath ferry is 'act of God'

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Published Date: 18 July 2009
DIVINE intervention or mechanical meltdown? The vessel due to make the historic first regular Sunday crossing between the mainland and Lewis has hit troubled waters
The ferry, the Isle of Lewis, suffered a breakdown due to a faulty exhaust yesterday, meaning it may be out of action for 48 hours. Another ferry has been drafted in for tomorrow's sailing.

Last night, the Rev Angus Smith, a veteran campaigner against ferries sailing to the islands on the Sabbath, said the breakdown was a reminder of "God's providence".

The vessel limped into Stornoway at lunchtime yesterday, after leaving Ullapool at 9am. Later services from Stornoway were cancelled.

The fallout from the fault means Lewis's first regular Sunday ferry will actually be in the dead of night.

A revised timetable for today has the last run from Ullapool leaving at 11:30pm and arriving in Stornoway at 3am tomorrow.

Caledonian MacBrayne's decision to breach the last bastion of Sabbatarianism and run the Sunday ferry from Lewis has angered the islands' council and traditionalists, who say the move will further erode a unique way of life.

Mr Smith, who famously lay down on the pier in Kyleakin in 1965 when the first Sunday ferry sailed to Skye, said: "God is in all providence.

"The chief message is not that the ferry has broken down, but that God speaks to us through his works.

"All companies – including ferry companies – should remember to keep the Sabbath holy instead of pursuing monetary gain."

A letter in one local newspaper yesterday predicted trouble if the service went ahead.

Its author, Iain Bain, from Gairloch, said: "Anyone who works on a Sunday is making a mockery of God and His laws, but God says He will not be mocked. He has power to sink a Sunday ferry."

However, many islanders have welcomed the decision and say people should have the choice of seven-day services and that it could boost tourism and the economy.

Uisdean Macleod, spokesman for the Campaign for 7 Days' Sailing, took a different view on the breakdown. "These things happen and I guess of all the weekends for it to happen, it would be this one.

"It is more an act of maintenance, I suspect, than an act of God. If the ferry does not happen this Sunday, it will be a disappointment, but the battle has been won. It will sail on Sundays throughout the year."

CalMac insisted the inaugural Sunday service would operate, but the planned timetable – it was due to leave Lewis at 2:30pm – might have to change.

A spokesman said: "We are redeploying other vessels and at the moment our intention is to run the Sunday service."

Yesterday's ferry breakdown caused a major headache for CalMac during one of the busiest weekends on Lewis, with the Hebridean Celtic Festival in full swing. The event is attended by more than 16,000 people, some due to take advantage of the new service and return to the mainland tomorrow.

Sailing to the rescue last night to replace the Isle of Lewis while it is repaired were two other vessels in the CalMac fleet, the Isle of Arran and the Hebrides.

Calmac said the breakdown will have knock-on effects on its Islay route and said further details will be made on its website. The Arran and Hebrides are both much smaller than the Isle of Lewis. The Arran can only take 62 cars and 659 passengers, the Hebrides 98 cars and 612 passengers – compared to the 114 cars and 970 passengers on the Lewis.

The first Sunday sailing already has bookings for 40 cars and larger vehicles.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 July 2009 9:38 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Caledonian MacBrayne
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 00:07:02

Well!, They do say "God works in mysterious ways"

2

Tracker,

18/07/2009 00:23:09
The Reverend Angus Smith describes the breakdown as a reminder of God's providence. To the reverend everything is a reminder of God's providence - breakdown of aeroplane, car and person!

I'm not going to comment on the man who writes about God having the power to sink a ship.
3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 00:34:14

~2.
Tracker,

If you hear thunder, you will know "God", is very angry with your comment.


4

Darien,

Panama 18/07/2009 00:34:50
"All companies – including ferry companies – should remember to keep the Sabbath holy instead of pursuing monetary gain."

Calmac puruse monetary gain? You must be joking. Its losses are legendary and always picked up by the poor taxpayer. It can't be anyway else with a public owned company.

Knackered ferry: its Calmac that's a mess here, as per usual.
5

Douglas,

Bathgate 18/07/2009 00:46:33
Breakdown of Sabbath ferry is 'act of God' so don't bother calling your insurance company. You ain't covered.
6

,

18/07/2009 00:46:59
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7

Douglas,

Bathgate 18/07/2009 00:48:15
Chazza #3: And if there's no thunder is that tacit approval from the supreme being?
8

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 01:03:36
"He has power to sink a Sunday ferry."

Does he have the power to ensure all the religious nutters are aboard?

9

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 18/07/2009 01:04:31
"Last night, the Rev Angus Smith, a veteran campaigner against ferries sailing to the islands on the Sabbath..."

Sunday isn't the Sabbath. The man needs to read the Bible, and repent.
10

morris,

edinburgh 18/07/2009 01:24:54
Common sense would dictate that those wishing to observe the Sabbath do so, whilst those wising to board the ferry do so.Everybody happy (in theory)
If you dont want to get on the ferry DONT GET ON IT!
8
I wonder how these islanders would feel if we refused to send an air ambulance because it was Sunday,and asked "could you hang on until Monday and well transport you to Raigmore then".God does not want you to be saved on Sundays!
Somebody ought to tell them there are people who wish to use the ferry,and they dont stop you from going to church .Drag yourselves into the twenty first century for God sake!

The crazy part is they are happy enough to stay indoors or observing the Sunday in church,but still manage to arrive in the pub at midnight and spend all night there! Yes God does indeed work in mysterious ways.The real miracle is that any sensible human being believes this clap trap any more.

God fearing people?

You mean God fearing alcoholics!
11

GrahamR,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 01:26:25
"He has power to sink a Sunday ferry."

If that came from someone of a slightly different 'faith' it might be construed as a threat to terrorism.
12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 01:26:39

~7.
Douglas,

I don't really know, its just something the wife says when she hears thunder, "God is Angry"!, I cant argue the case, as she might get angry with me.
It must be a learning, that was handed down from centuries ago :((
But!, I am a 'tad' superstitious!

13

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 01:31:50
11
GrahamR

"If that came from someone of a slightly different 'faith' it might be construed as a threat to terrorism."

A religious nutter is a religious nutter. Stoning adulterers, bombing abortion clinics, sinking ferries - so long as someone is dying in terror and agony, it's all god's work.

Amen!

14

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 01:34:10

It might be of prudence to watch what one says while commenting on this one.
We don't want to find any of our posters in the obituary columns after being stuck down by lightning!



15

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 01:35:24

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!

16

,

18/07/2009 02:09:50
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17

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 02:22:02

~16.
Rufus T Fiarfry,

That is not nice!, Do you want a smack!?

18

,

18/07/2009 02:41:59
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19

,

18/07/2009 02:47:26
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20

,

18/07/2009 02:51:55
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21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 03:33:58

~20.
Florajora,

Your 'tease', gets my reply!

What can I say, but to have one word called 'respect'

'Respect of the unknown', is of Prudence, the 'respect' of a Woman is what it should be!

I rest my case, and if I got it Wrong, my judgement day will not be good.

:((

22

S'me,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 03:36:49
I bet God was... FURIOUS!!!
23

Black Sabbath,

18/07/2009 03:56:04
"said the breakdown was a reminder of "God's providence".
"

Or it could be that mechanical devices break down on their own without any intervention from God.

People like the Reverend are proof that religion makes you very stupid indeed.
24

Scotaway,

Wanchai 18/07/2009 04:06:40
All we need is Para Handy and MacPhail to come to fix the ferry and this will be the story of the year.
25

Angoos,

Baku, Azerbaijan 18/07/2009 05:38:03
#10 Morris

There is a hospital in Stornoway that can deal with most medical emergencies and, in case you didn't know, in the event of a more serious incident there have been Sunday flights available from the Isle of Lewis for a few years.

As for your comment regarding folk observing the Sabbath (the "Sabbath" mentioned in the Bible is the Jewish Sabbath) and then "turning up in the pub at midnight and staying there all night". I take it from this ludicrous statement that you have never actually visited the Isle of Lewis ?
Your comment about "God fearing alcoholics" is not surprising, given that you are more than likely a typical Barbour wearing Hooray Henry from Edinburgh !
26

donald,

glasgow 18/07/2009 06:03:19
I spoke to God and he says he has never heard of Gordon Broon, Saviour of the Word. He must be in the wrang Kirk.

If Goad can sink a ferry in the Western Isles think of what he can do to Gordon's submarine in the Holy Loch

I heard an escaped monkey swam ashore and Labour pinned a rosette oan him and made him King, then hung a Stornoway Freedom fighter for speaking in Gaelic.
27

an interested party,

18/07/2009 06:54:04
I always love how religious arguments evolve over time
28

Boy Wonder,

18/07/2009 07:23:52
Chuckles Linskaill is the product of an insane God. He is every bit as loopy as the Isolationists on the Islands!

Plus he's off his meds again!
29

Rob Royston,

Bishopbriggs 18/07/2009 07:57:24
The ferry Isle of Lewis is the biggest white elephant that Calmac ever commissioned. Why did no one at Calmac or the Scottish Office get to walk the plank?
30

Scotaway,

Wanchai 18/07/2009 07:59:44
Recommended reading:

All in the Mind: A Farewell To God - Ludovic Kennedy

31

Rob Royston,

Bishopbriggs 18/07/2009 08:01:18
The ferry Isle of Lewis was trumpeted by Calmac as being capable of four return crossings a day. Why does it only manage two? Why do they charter another ferry and crew to take the trucks across?
32

Munguin,

18/07/2009 08:11:06
If every mechanical breakdown is as a result of God’s providence, then lets hope that the good reverend’s car does not break down on the way to church on Sunday.
33

Rob Royston,

Bishopbriggs 18/07/2009 08:15:35
When is a newspaper going to investigate the scandelous waste of public money that is the ferry Isle of Lewis?

How did the crew of the old ferry know, while it was still in the shipyard, that the ferry's design was flawed and the Calmac management did not?

How much has this white elephant and the extra vessel hired to cover up the b@lls up cost the taxpayer and thr travelling public?
34

Jings MacCrivvens,

18/07/2009 08:22:40
Ochone! ochone! Could the Ferry Rev Smith not find it in his heart to declare the Sunday sailings an "errand of mercy"?
35

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 08:51:53
How odd. Usually we have the SNP zealots going on ad nauseam about the distinct nature of Scottish culture and it's what makes us Scottish not British, blah blah. Don't see many today defending the right of some of our compatriots to defend their unique, and very indigenous, way of life. Instead, just mockery.
36

,

18/07/2009 09:09:41
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37

Joburg Pete,

18/07/2009 09:24:20
I think it is important that we begin asking serious questions about believers like this reverend. If we take a man to an empty stadium and he begins waving at all the people he sees in the stands, we call him mad because quite clearly nobody is there. Here we have a grown man, an educated man behaving in a psychologically deprived manner and we say it is ok.
To believe in something that cannot be proved is one thing, to believe in something that cannot be seen is quite another, especially when you need to fabricate reasons as to why it cannot be seen or proven.
It is time we called a spade a spade. To say the breakdown was a reminder of "God's providence" is not proof that he is a man of god but rather that he is a man of madness.
38

MacGhillieBhain,

Aberdeen 18/07/2009 09:28:54
My wife and I endured a weekend on the Isle Lewis and in Stornoway some years ago.What #10 says is true as we observed the same carry-on. For instance,had to go into the back door of an hotel for a drink,had to drive many miles for fuel and a bite to eat.(Yes,they tried to stop this very nice people from opening on a Sunday).These holy Willies should take a good look at themselves and realize that the world is round and goes round. Calmac should say to them "no Sunday ferry,no ferry!". See how they like that?
39

Martin_edinburgh,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 09:33:48
#37 - You are quite right of course. The Sabbath is the last day of the week, Saturday. That day was divinely instituted as such, and there is no warrant in Scripture for changing it to any other day. Those who claim to keep the Sabbath on a Sunday are usurping that divine institution. If they can't get the day right, it is no surprise that their attempts to ringfence Sunday have failed.
40

aonghas,

la Manche 18/07/2009 09:34:30
What Angus Smith is talking about is what a typical Pharisee would say.....the LAW is all........if defecting a ferry was Gods work then every ship/plane/train in the world would be disabled.........or maybe there is a special LAW for LEWIS being such a "holy" place and Angus Smith being such a "holy zealout"...........how about HE repents and stops calling himseld "Reverend" (there is but ONE reverend) - and OBEY the bible which he has been selectively using for years to gain a name for HIMSELF fulfil the saying "they loved the praise and honour of men more than God"

Come on Angus..........it's not too late .........obey the law of lovingkindness........not the traditions of your fathers...........the law will NEVER set you free..........but if you "know the truth" the truth WILL set you free.........it's revealed to "babes" not the "wise and prudent"...........so if we all humble ourselves "as little children" and see how much LOVE surrounds us......a boat sailing on Sunday will seem like "dross" like when the disciples picked ears of corn on the sabbath day............worshipping the sabbath day (above God) is IDOLATORY.........I wonder how MR Smith feels about that.........he should repent like we all should
41

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 18/07/2009 09:36:12
Seems more like a faulty exhaust than divine intervention. Possibly the Rev Smith has a faulty exhaust himself.
42

Joburg Pete,

18/07/2009 09:37:16
Angus - In my honest opinion, I believe you are placing too much emphasis on what the bible says. Remember that the book you are quoting from is just a book. My rational mind tells me that if we were made by a god,no book would be required because all information would be built in to our processing chip called the brain. In other words we would all just know, there would be no need for questions or doubt in that regard.
The book is a man made document that could have been written by aliens, which I believe to be less far fetched than god. When I try and picture the god that the believers worship on their knees, I am confronted with an image of a form that is all powerful, advanced and knowing, yet he or she forgot to programme his existence into our memories. This is a monumental error for any scientist, creator or maker. In fact it is an error so bad it would need to result in instant dismissal in any scenario.
43

Faux Cul,

18/07/2009 09:44:25
I am actually in favour of wee sects upholding their peculiar beliefs, so long as they don't frighten the weans or hurt the animals. They are consenting adults I suppose.

However I draw the line where they, a minority I guess, but even if they were a majority I would still maintain, have no right to impose their views on the rest.

"Ah, we have a right to our religious beliefs and culture". Of course they have but not over mine.

That is religious intolerance and fascism, no more and no less. The Taliban is exactly the same, although their retribution is physical and vented in the this plain.

If I am going to Hell because of my beliefs fine, because I'd be happy to meet them there.

Let their God punish me in their afterlife not in my present.
44

Pomodora,

Gravesend 18/07/2009 09:47:40
What is all this fuss about? Just remember that God is a Jew and Saturday is HIS day off.
45

NoNamesLeftInThisSystem,

Edinburgh 18/07/2009 09:56:05
The Sunday sabbath, like most "Christian" values, is actually a Roman imperialist value, bringing the troublesome Jewish sects in line with the one true God, Sol Invictus.
That's where haloes come from, too. Not to mention short hair, militaristic regimentation, pyramidal power structures, the "Market Economy" of conquest...
Let's just chill out (it's Scotland, after all) in the sun!
46

brownlie,

18/07/2009 10:04:10
39 MacGhillieBhain

I think you'll find that Stornoway has changed quite significantly since your visit with more places for food and "refreshment" open. On the other hand, quite a few visitors go to the islands for the peace and quiet.

I can't totally understand the fuss about the ferry when planes can fly in and out on a Sunday without comment. The ferry on a Sunday would certainly benefit a lot of individuals who, if working on Monday, have to leave the island on Saturday.

10 Morris

Whilst I often read your posts with interest and agree with a great deal of what you post, I don't think you do yourself any favours with your blanket generalisation regarding "God-fearing alcohols".
47

brownlie,

18/07/2009 10:04:51
47 should read "alcoholics" and not "alcohols".
48

Mcsnagpile,

18/07/2009 10:26:04
Beware,, when travelling beyond the Pillars of Hercules and on to Lewis; you might fall of the edge of the earth, or be dragged to your doom on the rocks by the sirens, or pulled to the bottom of the sea by Neptune.
49

Saul Tyre,

18/07/2009 10:35:00
God certainly got his priorities right on this one. He could easily have chosen one of these pirate ships off the coast of Somalia or a warship firing Tomahawk missiles at innocent civiliians. By the way don't believe any theories of Sunday ferries being sabotaged by 'wee free' extremists. They're not allowed to work on the Sabbath.
50

Joburg Pete,

18/07/2009 10:40:24
I remember a time when I would pray to god, but I was young and I didnt know any better. By the time I was 15 I thought that god was as real as Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, Thor, jack and jill and humpty dumpty. Maybe science can tell us why people are able to give up their belief in Santa Claus but not god.
51

Joburg Pete,

18/07/2009 10:41:48
Saul Tyre - 100% correct, rational thought is more pure than god.
52

animmo,

18/07/2009 10:46:59
If they believe in God's almighty power so much, take the ferry away altogether and let the stupid ars3s swim. I suppose they also object to homosexuality, the eating of shellfish and the wearing of more than one kind of cloth do they? W4nkers.
53

Ewan Oosami,

18/07/2009 10:50:29
I see the god-botherers are alive and well - jeez they get on my mammaries - get a life!
BTW which god are we talking about here?, maybe the answer is to have a ferry on a Sunday for Muslims and Jews.
54

Joburg Pete,

18/07/2009 11:08:12
In my opinion, if you believe in god you need counselling because you are suffering from complex psychological problems.
Failure to acknowledge the rational through a fear that results in irrational thought is no laughing matter.
55

animmo,

18/07/2009 11:17:22
Perhaps St Christopher will carry them across?
56

Rob Royston,

Bishopbriggs 18/07/2009 11:21:29
Why is there so much hatred towards anyone who believes that the Bible is God's word? Run the ferries if there is a social need, but there is no sense in getting into slanging matches about it.
57

albanman,

18/07/2009 11:23:55
No.55 Joburg Pete wrote: "In my opinion, if you believe in god you need counselling because you are suffering from complex psychological problems."

Well, it's only an opinion but a generalisation that can easily by shot down by the simple process investigation. There are many highly intelligent and psychologically healthy people who believe in God.

No one who has a basic knowledge of psychology would be foolish enough to make the statement you did. Also, in this particular case it is your thought process which is irrational - and to quote you "that is no laughing matter". Perhaps the South African sun has gone to your head.
58

Joburg Pete,

18/07/2009 11:32:28
albaman -
I disagree with you. You are drawing a comparison between intelligence and a faith based mental illness brougth on by fear.
If any person was to stand in an empty room and have a conversation with an invisible friend we would rightly send them for psychological assessment, it is therefore only natural that we should do the same to those who speak to their imaginary god.
59

albanman,

18/07/2009 11:33:57
No.57: I completely agree with what you wrote and am saddened by the nastiness which is coming from both sides.

Even though I disagree with their view, I can understand the feelings of some of the folk on Lewis+Harris. I honestly don't think it would be hassle for tourists to forego sailing on a Sunday, and it would show respect for the islanders. Having said that, there are flights to the island on a Sunday,so what's the big deal about a ferry?

Also, the comment by Iain Bain about God being able to sink a Sunday ferry is despicable; I wonder what Christ would say to such an insinuation.
60

animmo,

18/07/2009 11:35:51
#57 - "Why is there so much hatred towards anyone who believes that the Bible is God's word?"

Perhaps because in almost EVERY aspect of life in this so-called modern country is constrained, limited by or influenced by the churches. I personally am sick to the back teeth of our sectarian school system, our sunday licensing laws, the fact that the churches feel they have the right to comment and 'advise' on every single facet of our lives through the laws that are made here. When do the rest of us get to say enough is enough? Never, that's when. Send all the god-botherers to the islands and let them do as they want, but leave the rest of us to lead lives as WE want.
61

albanman,

18/07/2009 11:48:56
No.50: Gosh, from a psychological standpoint your argument is baseless. From a mathematical perpective it is also nonsensical as you are seeking to prove a negative.

There are indeed people who suffer from mental illness. However, there is no single definition of mental illness and criteria vary depending on the social, legal and political context.

In general, however, a mental disorder has been characterised as a clinically significant behavioural or psychological pattern that occurs in an individual and is usually associated with distress and disability often manifested in obsessive-compulsive disorders, social anxiety disorders, psychotic disorders, clinical depression and schizophrenia.

There are many people who believe in God who have none of these characteristics and many atheists who do

With all due respect, your comments appear to be based on a prejudice against people of faith rather than any scientific explanation - and I speak as someone who is certainly not religious.
62

albanman,

18/07/2009 11:49:52
That should be No.59 not No.50
63

Porry,

18/07/2009 11:52:00
The Bible calls for absolutely no work on Sundays? How come the Rev Angus Smith keeps working on Sundays then?
64

JCA REID,

Annan 18/07/2009 12:02:44
The 16th.Century Tartan Taleban are still with us. Grow up for Chrissake!!
65

,

18/07/2009 12:10:30
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66

McManc,

18/07/2009 12:12:23
God looks down, there are murders going on, bombs in Hotels, rapes, racism, hatred, gangland killings-God thinks, all these people are using vehicles, I must use my "providence" and send a message, I will make one of these vehicles break down...but which one will send the strongest message?
..I know!.. the f**kin ferry taking families and friends to that nice island in Scotland...

Yes..religion does play strange tricks with your mind, Reverend!
67

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

18/07/2009 12:29:31
#65

"Tartan Taleban" - lol!!

Spot the difference..........
68

Proghead,

Embra 18/07/2009 12:37:43
Reminds me of an oldie :

Man living on the Mid-west flood plains is visited by a cop telling him to leave as the floods are coming, but he refuses saying 'God will provide' . Flood arrives and he's had to go upstairs as the flood is 12 feet deep. Same cop arrives on a boat, but still he refuses to leave, saying ' God will provide ' Flood gets much worse and he's up on the roof. Cop arrives in a helicopter pleading with him, but again ' God will provide ' Man drowns and he's at the Pearly Gates, blazing mad with St. Peter. ' I thought God would provide, but now look ! ' St. Peter stares at him and says ' He did. He sent a car, a boat and a helicopter....'
69

Denis J Anatty,

18/07/2009 13:54:23
It's the intention that makes the difference: if it's for purely monetary returns it won't do any good on a Sabbath day but if it's for more human service it will be blessed by God Himself.
70

Gordon A.,

Vancouver 18/07/2009 14:21:15
Talk about a Hornet's Nest being disturbed, well this has to be one of the best in recent weeks.

The Road to the Isles shall continue to be expanded and so more will come & go.
No wonder so many Scots are abroad today.

Our Faith is real, and our memory is long lasting.
No wonder we of Scottish decent are known for being a wee bit stubborn.

Hope you have a wonderful Sabbath! regardless of where you rest your feet.

71

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

18/07/2009 14:26:14
#65/#68

Actually, not so funny if you think about it - both driven on by the same unbending certainty inspired by ancient myth. God = Allah, Allah = God?

I had an interesting conversation recently with a born-again Christian who only hesitated slightly when I asked him if he really believed that the world was literally created in 7 days, before replying that he had to, because that's what it says in the Bible
72

Morry,

Scotland 18/07/2009 14:31:30
Why is it elsewhere in the world, the "natives" are afforded their beliefs? they are on the whole, left uninterferred with, to get on with their lives as they see fit.
Different people whose religion is sacred to their way of life, the Mormons, the Amish, to name only two and yet those who live in the Western Isles are on the whole ignored, ridiculed and ostrasized by many of their own.

I think Calmac, although a lifeline to the islands are overstepping their mark here, on the basis of the few who wish to travel on a Sunday.

There are few places in the world where "one" can stand in awe and admire the determination of people whose faith means everything to them,
especially in the face of adversity and against what anyone else wants.
73

Faux Cul,

18/07/2009 14:46:40
#73

Try Luton or Bradford or The NW Frontier
74

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/07/2009 14:49:52
I think we should be more gracious to people of faith. They don't, generally, intrude on this heathens life, so why the animosity against them ? They are entitled to their strange beliefs, just as I am entitled to my not so strange ones. Why do people get angry about another persons belief in a God that the first person knows doesn't exist ? They've lost the argument over ferry sailings, the same as they've lost the argument over so many subjects now you can't actually list them. So it's not really necessary to spew bile at them.
75

,

18/07/2009 14:52:06
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76

morris,

edinburgh 18/07/2009 15:06:46
25 I doubt that you could be any more wrong than you are. Ive spent more time in the North of Scotland than I could possibly list. Ive "lived" in Wick Ullapool Cromdale Inverness to name but a few ,although obvioulsy for a few weeks/months in some cases which would be self evident if I listed all of them , and had frequent visits to /stays on quite a few of the islands as it happens. Stornoway having flights on a Sunday would be an argument in favour of Sunday sailing I would have thought,not against as you seem to think, and an air ambulance would only be called where specialist care was needed at a larger hospital,like Raigmore ,speed being of the essence,and specialist paramedic care being on hand,in which case travel by any normal flight would be at best ill advised,and probably not risked.
Simailarly even with the bridge at Kyle of Lochalsh I doubt that a road ambulance would be used much since it would be far easier just to treat those cases in Stornoway.
Your assumption that living in Edinburgh means I have never been to the North West of my country is as presumptious as it could possibly be, and even more wrong!


The local hospital would deal with most cases I agree,and even the village idiot would know that.You state the obvious and achieve absolutley nothing.I suspect you take offence at my suggestion that maybe we have a drink problem in Scotland, and the Western Isles are no exception.I have spent more weekends drinking in Gaelic speaking company than I can count, and freely admit to having been at many an all night session.Far from not being qualified to offer an opinion, I am too well qualified by far!
The people who know me will be laughing their heads off at how wrong you managed to be. Far from never having been near the islands and islanders I have rarely been away from them!
There are many islanders who are opposed to Sunday sailing I agree, and plenty who cant wait for the service to start.It will increase tourism and benefit businesse
77

morris,

edinburgh 18/07/2009 15:13:21
77 continued


and benfeit businesses which will benefit everybody on the islands. I defend the freedom of the individual and I include those who wish to sail on a Sunday who also have rights.
78

morris,

edinburgh 18/07/2009 15:34:48
19

No inference intended toward you of course but many of the Christians I knew were reformed alcoholics or drug addicts.I welcome the improvement and wish them well of course,but I defend basically the right of all people to freedom of choice,and you cannot have freedom of choice when you favour the wishes of one and in so doing oppose the freedom of the others.That's why I say if you want to go to the kirk go, and if you want to go to the local hostelry go, and if you want to head for Ullapool or Oban go,but it applies to everybody of course,and personally I would have to admit to having been rather more fond of the water of life than the spirit of God. Am I biased ?Yes I probably am,but I'm trying not to be,which is the best one can manage on this one I suspect.

Let people be where they want to be when they want to be. I would have sympathy with the islanders who oppose Sunday sailing saying I should respect their views whilst on the islands, but Im trying to get off and they have no respect for my not wishing to be there on Sunday!
79

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/07/2009 15:43:06
79 morris is right, it's about balancing rights. People who choose to observe the Sabbath (whether Saturday or Sunday) can do so - no one is forcing them to take a ferry or go to work (employees have the right not to work on a Sunday and that's how it should be). But they don't have the right to impose their views on us heathens - and by and large they don't. So really we have no business trying to impose our beliefs on them - that makes intolerant athesists as bad as the thing they imagine they are opposing.
80

Lys Alf,

Scotland 18/07/2009 15:48:57
I just wonder if the Reverend Angus Smith is going to gather together a witch burning party soon to rid his Island Parish of these supposed evil beings who were accused and burned by good Christian folk for worshipping the Devil!

Problem is that in European Paganism such a being as the Devil does not exist!

The Horned God is the God of the hunt, keeper of the deer of the forrest!

To placate and appeal to him for a successful hunt would have meant that the tribe would be able to feed themselves and continue to live!

Remember that democracy itself was a precious gift from tolerant, Pagan Europe! The enlightened tolerant Pagan gentleman called Pericles evolved the concept in the ancient Athens of 400 B.C.

Another enlightened Pagan gentleman called Hippoctates drew up the Hippocratic Oath, I swear by Apollo, Aesclepious, Hygia ------!

This oath defined the ethics covering the whole of medical practise for centuries, another Pagan Gift!!!
81

morris,

edinburgh 18/07/2009 16:07:04
80 Thank You dear lady. Its just sad that I have to paint myself as a sinner to defend my having no axe to grind here.
I am amused at the suggestion that I am a Hooray Henry though !
I hang so far to the left,that its only because the SNP is such a broad political church that I still have somewhere to live probably!

If I offend Christians or Alcoholics then I do so unintentionally and merely wish to protect their right to the most fundamental freedom of all, andthat is be what they choose to be .
That does not apply six days per week.How can it?
For the record I have often been impressed by many of your offerings on here. Fancy a Sunday drink, maybe we could go for a ferry ride afterwards !
82

Iain Mac,

18/07/2009 16:10:28
It's little wonder that the line between madness and religious behaviour is hard to draw. Proves that superstition is still alive in some parts of the Highlands.

It should be remembered that those who campaign against this service do not want a 'day of rest'. They seek to keep it 'holy'. I.e. nothing should happen but worship. These people also believe that the theatre and music are work of the devil! They believe in the death penalty for various 'sins' including adultery. They ARE maniacs and their superstitious nonsense deserves to die a death.
83

Iain Mac,

18/07/2009 16:12:49
#80 - is there such a thing as an 'intolerant atheist'? How can you be intolerant of something that doesnt exist? And, are most religious people also atheist to an extent that they rubbish other people's gods and customs? Am i being 'intolerant' if i refuse to believe in the tooth fairy or refuse to accept public backing for those who do?
84

Rob Royston,

Bishopbriggs 18/07/2009 16:28:38
#81 Talking of burning witches, the Brahan Seer, who was burned in a barrel of tar at Channory Point because his prophesies kept coming true, is said to have made a prophesy that the Isle of Lewis would sink into the sea.

I have not seen that in the book I have about him but it is often quoted, with a lot of people saying now that it is the ferry he meant. Personally, I think it's a load of nonsense, touch wood :o)

http://policyinstitute.info/news-events/freeing-the-isles-from-the-stranglehold-of-calmac/
85

morris,

edinburgh 18/07/2009 16:31:07
84 You have the right to be whatever you claim to be or desire to be.As an example .....................
I am opposed to the views of the Conservative and Unionist party, but I have much respect for my local Tory councillor,and would defend his right to say what he does,and of course completely disagree with him. Its all about the freedom of the individual ,but balanced against the democratically declared wishes of the majority. Democracy is never easy,but what else do we have?
For the record I agree with every single syllable at 83 (yours also),and irrespective of what reply Observer gives to your question, I would defend her right to declare herself to be what she claims she is or views she holds always,even if I disagreed with her(which I'm sure I don't).
86

morris,

edinburgh 18/07/2009 16:36:26
85 Its crazy that we would have considered burning a man because his prophecies kept on coming true.

I would have wanted to know what wins the Grand National for the next twenty years and if I ever did agree to burn him,it would be because he always got it wrong !
87

morris,

edinburgh 18/07/2009 16:47:45
This reminds me of the clairvoyant who filed for divorce because of her husbands infidelity in 2010, and had to clsoe down because of unforseen circumsatnces .
88

Joburg Pete,

18/07/2009 17:28:43
albaman
I disagree with your comments about science and psychology.
I am merely saying that we must be consistent in our assessments. Any person who dedicated their lives to worshipping fairies or speaking to invisible or imaginary friends would be treated as mad, therefore we must reserve the same right for the believers of god.
89

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/07/2009 17:41:20
84 You appear to show signs of intolerance, yes. No one is forcing you to believe in the tooth fairy are they ? I reckon your milk teeth are long gone by now, and in any case you had a coin under your pillow when the tooth fairy visited all those years ago, so why are you complaining ? What public backing other than ceremonial do the faithful get ? None. They have lost every argument from abortion to sex education to stem cell research, and homosexual equality -they lost. And I delighted in it, but I don't feel the need to attack them. Rationality appears these days to be winning.
90

Scotaway,

Wanchai 18/07/2009 17:47:05
Just back from dinner and catching up with the posts - amazing stuff and mostly drivel. The story is about a ferry that's f****d and a wee free who claims it was done by God. I suggest that they fix the ferry, forget about the wee free and set sail as soon as possible so we can all get back to castigating bankers and politicians.
91

Lys Alf,

Scotland 18/07/2009 17:51:20
Post #85 Rob Royston Bishopbriggs

Yes I know of the gentleman who was yet another victim of Christian intolerance!

You must remember that before our European ancestors were forced to worship the intolerant Asian God of the Jews and his crucified Bedouin Rabbi Son Europe led the world in Science, Philosophy, Mathamatics Geometry. For instance, Erosthosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth in circa 391 B.C.

Hypatia, the last librarian of the repositary of Ancient Knowledge, Great Library of Alexandria was murdered by the followers of Bishop Cyril of Alexandria (Later St. Cyril). She was pulled from her chariot on her return from the gymnasium, dragged into the church and murdered when she refused to convert to Christianity.

This lady was skilled in Rhetoric, Geometry, Philosophy and had written scientific papers (considered Pagan propaganda attempting to explain existance in terms of the natural process)

With her death in circa 415 A.D. the dark ages fell on Europe!!! Bruno was burnt at the stake by the Christians as late as the 16th centuary merely for speculating that there may be other worlds "out there"

Gallileo himself narrowly escaped burning by the Christians of his day.

The worship of a monotheistic deity naturally precludes tolerance and knowledge that liberates the mind is controlled by the church.
92

malmac,

central 18/07/2009 18:07:23
This breakdown has absolutely nothing to do with God's providence, it has to do with c*** workmanship. This is the third timethe M.V. Isle of Lewis has broken down this year. Like the rest of Calmac's fleet foreign built junk.
Incedentally the ferry will not be arriving at Stornoway at the "Dead of Night" it is broad daylight in Stornoway at 3am this time of year
93

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 18:24:14
23
Black Sabbath

"Or it could be that mechanical devices break down on their own without any intervention from God."

You are a heretic and a blasphemer. You will be cast down into the flames to burn for all eternity whilst being consumed by strangely flame-resistant worms.

94

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 18:37:29
27
an interested party

"I always love how religious arguments evolve over time"

Which is more than can be said of religion itself, of course. Still the superstitious claptrap it was when mediaeval monks did their scribbling.

You just know they were having a laugh, don't you? The work of a scribe is pretty tedious. Who can blame them if they indulged in a bit of monastery mischief? Quick look round to make sure the abbot isn't watching, then slip in a bit about some virgin giving birth and spend the spend the next few years chortling about the confusion you have sown.

It might not be better than sex, but it sure beats self-flagellation.

95

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 18:40:18
30
Rob Royston

"Why did no one at Calmac or the Scottish Office get to walk the plank?"

A plank-walking was scheduled. But the timetable slipped.

96

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 18:41:40
32
Rob Royston

"Why does it only manage two? Why do they charter another ferry and crew to take the trucks across?"

Oh goody! A quiz!

97

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 18:43:20
34
Rob Royston

"When is a newspaper going to investigate the scandelous waste of public money that is the ferry Isle of Lewis?

How did the crew of the old ferry know, while it was still in the shipyard, that the ferry's design was flawed and the Calmac management did not?

How much has this white elephant and the extra vessel hired to cover up the b@lls up cost the taxpayer and thr travelling public?"

Is there a Sixties Music round? I'm good at that.

98

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 18:53:21
57
Rob Royston

"Why is there so much hatred towards anyone who believes that the Bible is God's word?"

Hatred? Nah! Light-hearted mockery of the largely harmlessly deluded.

Let these religious nutters bring their vile creed into the schools and try to corrupt the minds of vulnerable children, then you'll see hatred.

99

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 19:13:24
73
Morry

"...the Mormons, the Amish, to name only two..."

I'm an equal opportunities mocker. Bring on your Mormons and your Amish! And let the mocking commence!

100

Joburg Pete,

18/07/2009 19:16:14
I think god is best described as the most famous imaginary friend.
101

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 19:17:01
73
Morry

"There are few places in the world where "one" can stand in awe and admire the determination of people whose faith means everything to them,
especially in the face of adversity and against what anyone else wants."

They should be grateful. There's nothing your average religious freak likes better than a bit of persecution.

Unless it's martyrdom. But that plays havoc with your ability to mess with other people's lives.

102

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 19:27:37
75
Observer

"So it's not really necessary to spew bile at them."

They choose to make targets of themselves when they try to impose their primitive superstitions on others.

Besides, if we "spew bile" at them it gives them an opportunity to exercise their self-righteous superiority. Something they are happy to do seven days a week.

103

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 19:39:30
75
Observer

"I think we should be more gracious to people of faith."

I used to adopt this attitude. Then I came to realise that religious fundamentalism does not arise from nothing nor exist in a vacuum. So-called "ordinary" or "moderate" religious freaks provide the soil and seed-stock from which fundamentalism grows.

Ignorance and superstition are not benign.

104

freedom not subservience,

good question 18/07/2009 19:42:28
AA ferry breaking down is not an act of God. Neither is it an excuse to slag of Christians
105

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 19:48:06
105
freedom not subservience

"Neither is it an excuse to slag of Christians"

But some Christian representing the breakdown as "divine intervention" is an excellent excuse.

106

freedom not subservience,

still here 18/07/2009 19:48:37
.Just noticed that when you comment on a story your email address may be used for a Scotsman journalist to contact me for further information. I welcome Mr Labour party quisling Maddox to masquerade as a journalist
107

Joburg Pete,

18/07/2009 19:48:43
freedom NS

I think it is reason to slag off believers. We cannot allow this madness to continue unchallenged. I said earlier that god is best described as the most famous imaginary friend and I stand by that.
If we can worry about a 12 year old who still believes in Santa Claus, we must also worry about people who still believe in god.
Especially those who believe in divine ferry intervention
108

freedom not subservience,

still in scotland 18/07/2009 19:55:15
Blair is no Christian
109

Scottyt,

Saint Paul, Usa 18/07/2009 19:56:33
I'm 71 but I well remember being in Caithness on occasion to spend a holiday with my dear, late Mother's family and as a child from what's called civilisation, Sundays were a nightmare for my brother, sister and myself!!
.
It is so hard to believe there are still folk around with this Minister's mind-set. As someone mentioned above, what do the likes of Rev. Smith feel if someone they love gets very ill on a Sunday and needs to get to the mainland for medical treatment????
.
God, in all shapes and forms, is there for EVERYONE on EVERY day. Wake up Rev.
110

Rob Royston,

Bishopbriggs 18/07/2009 20:04:50
Electric Hermit, I'm just filling in for Ewan :o)

Seriously though, this broken down ferry which was designed for this route has proven unfit for purpose and has had to be supplemented by a lorry ferry at considerable cost to the taxpayer. This information has been buried by Calmac, the Press and the Government.

1. The vessel was supposed to be capable of 4 round trips per day, i.e. it would depart the same port less than 6 hours after its previous departure. It would struggle to make it in 6-1/2 hours on the best weather day of the year.

It had to have attachments cut off the bow, presumably sprayrails, after its first weeks in service as they were causing massive banging noises that terrified the passengers whenever the boat was heading into any waves. Incidentaly this work was done in Stornoway harbour on a Sunday.

2. When the crew from the old ferry went on board at Port Glasgow the first thing they observed was that the vehicle deck was designed with an offset centre structure that give five car lanes, The problem with this was that the double car lane could only accommodate one row of trucks, so for loading purposes it followed that only one row of trucks could be put on the other side with a single row of cars alongside them.
As the previous ferry, that they had purchased ready built from Norway twenty years earlier, carried four lanes of trucks and was often filled to capacity it was apparent that the design was a total disaster.

The result is that you and I, and every taxpayer, has footed the massive subsidy on this service that should be paying its way as one of their busiest routes. What we have to pay for is a chartered truck ferry that lies against the pier in Stornoway all day and runs over to Ullapool at night on the truck run while the ferry built for the task sleeps at its berth.

The fact that the design failed to meet the anticipated speed would not in itself have been so bad, but the vehicle deck blunder made it totally incapabl
111

Rob Royston,

18/07/2009 20:08:37
111 cont. The fact that the design failed to meet the anticipated speed would not in itself have been so bad, but the vehicle deck blunder made it totally incapable of fullfilling its purpose. It would be interesting to see how much the remedial action has cost over its lifetime.
112

Electric Hermit,

18/07/2009 20:12:35
111
Rob Royston

Sounds like god's been up to his mischief again.

113

freedom not subservience,

still not anywhere else 18/07/2009 20:35:58
God or man EH :-)
114

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/07/2009 21:23:07
Regardless of the efficiency or otherwise of Calmac, which I can't comment on as I don't really use their services, the tax payer is always going to have to subsidise ferry services in this area, one way or t'other, as the private sector finds it unaffordable whilst keeping their profit margins. The Islands in general are subsidised, which in my view is fine, even if there are some weirdos who live on them.
115

freedom not subservience,

not anywhere remote 18/07/2009 21:40:36
Observer - who are you to call anyone a weirdo??
116

BLMac,

Highlands & Islands 18/07/2009 23:02:02
"Mr Smith ... said: "God is in all providence." "

So I suppose God sunk the Iolaire for fun then?
117

Calum Crubag,

19/07/2009 11:28:54
#117 - the Wee Free Taleban would have you think the Iolaire victims were sinners. Like John Macleod and on two girls who were abucted on the 'Sabbath' and killed. Remember, the Church of Scotland said the Clearances were an act of God too.

What a load of dark-age superstition and nonsense.
118

Jack Zulu,

african jungle 19/07/2009 11:33:21
Ridiculous

Since when is the sabbath on a sunday? The sabbath starts on friday sundown to saturday sundown.

The only reason why these misguided people think the sabbath is on a sunday is because in 321 AD Emperor constantine passed a decree(edict of milan) to change the sabbath from the jewish original one to the false pagan christian one. The sunday sabbath was actually a day pagan romans venerated the sun hence the name SUN-DAY. during biblical times there was no such days as saturday or sunday.

Christ was a jew that kept the jewish sabbath and the jewish torah, theres not an aorta or shred of evidence in the bible that mentions sunday as the sabbath. The closes is in acts 20:7 20 which actually mentions the first jewish day of the week which starts at saturday sundown.

the sunday sabbath is just silly pagan superstition that the church adopted and lie their tongues off to make it seem as though it's YHWH's law
119

radge dug,

19/07/2009 12:43:00
True, i was always told that Sunday was the first day of the week, therefore, Saturday is the 'Sabbath'. If followers of religious cults can't even agree on which day is the real 'day of the lord' then why should the rest of society forego public services because of their myths?
120

scully,

colchester 19/07/2009 15:23:23


With all due respect to Rev Angus Smiths. Personal view,s. The world does not stop turning on a Sunday. On a farm the animal,s have to be attending to. e.g.: they have to be fed , the cow,s have to be milked, you yourself have to eat and drink . Food has to be cooked.. Then there are the emergency services , all of them . and there are some very large emergency serves. Hospital have to be run. emergency operations that cant be left because it happens to be Sunday, All the Church,s have to be open for The Rev to do there work . Sunday is there busiest day.Some people might only be able to get to Church to pray to God,with out transport. God himself is inundated with calls on al Sunday, All that Singing. and Ring bells.Poor Man his head must be spitting.And does that mean on a Sunday you would not call for the Sea king to come and rescue a badly injured or dying person,Maybe the Ferry would be the only transport that was available.
121

scully,

Colchester 19/07/2009 15:34:23


I firmly believe you should only work 6 days and rest the seventh. But when I was in the RAF. I could not have just any day I wanted off. I was in communications and worked two days and had the third day off, And being Scottish and stationed in England. I nearly always worked the weekend Holidays. It was to far to travel to Scotland for the weekend.At the Time. So who named the days and time, does anyone know,God had good reason for telling you to work six days and rest the seventh and I don't think it was for religious reasons.I never considered working on Sunday a sin.
122

scully,

Colchester 19/07/2009 15:46:02
To me everyday is Gods day. and we have a good working relationship. God is in me, and I am in God.But sometimes when you are busy other things occupy you mind.you have to concentrate on what you are doing. so you don't mess thing,s up. and there are just some things you have to make your own mind up about.But I respect your opinions Rev Smith.and I am sure you are a good man.What about all our good men and woman out in Afghanistan.including the Padres. Do they have Sunday off.or a 12 weeks Holiday.
123

scully,

Colchester 19/07/2009 15:47:48


Must go and start Dinner. Lets Hear from your Rev. I would love a chat with you.
124

Dave from Skye,

Skye (reachable by Bridge) 19/07/2009 20:33:01
I think the venomous criticism of religion in these pages is caused mainly by disappointment. Most of those criticising the church were themselves raised as Christians – but at some point they turned against it.

Once upon a time all they had to do was obey a few simple rules, and then they’d get to spend eternity in paradise, with all (or most of) their friends and loved ones.

Then one day, they decided it was all a load of rubbish. Actually they were just going to die, and be eaten by worms. The End.

That’s a pretty big disappointment! Bound to make one a little bitter, when you reach the conclusion that your hoped-for salvation is, in fact, just another Ponzi scheme.

Nevertheless, atheists should try to conceal their bitterness, and treat religious people with more understanding. There’s no need for vitriol. Religion will eventually fade away in the face of universal education. Already it’s mostly confined to countries without an effective education system, such as the Third World, or America.

As for the Sunday ferry – it’s a bit of a non-issue. There were 400 people on the ferry, and 20 protesters (granted the combined age of the 20 protesters probably exceeded the combined age of the passengers, but age does not necessarily bring wisdom. I know. I am very old, and astonishingly stupid).

Let the religious people have their dreams! What have we atheists got to offer them? Contented worms?
125

Iain Mac,

19/07/2009 20:44:12
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8157570.stm

Wellwishers cheering the ferry were there in their hundreds. Only a handful of the deluded turned up to protest at the 'breaking' of the Sabbath - Saturday or Sunday? Whatever, Lewis people have been, in greater numbers, breaking the Sunday laws for years now - going walks, watching television and doing household chores. Things which are frowned upon too. If they can use the Bearnaraigh bridge 7 days, why not a ferry?
126

Wallace1297,

19/07/2009 21:18:04
Hoorah the Western Isles Taliban have been defeated
127

voltaire's janny,

20/07/2009 08:36:15
Dave from Skye. You surely wouldn't deny us the sporting thrill of an opportunity to make a "mockery of God and His laws", would you?

Religion un-mocked is not the benign mummery of the deluded you imply - it is a dangerous force at large in the world, of greater threat to us all than practically anything else, not least because so many Americans deny the fact of evolution by natural selection and would quite welcome Armegeddon to hasten along the second coming.

Since all the Religions of the God of Abraham have their own version of an unfallible medieval book to claim belief in, and since all three books contain palpable nonsense and exhortations to behaviours that moderates in all three "faiths" reject, you have to ask, what exactly do such folks believe? If the answer is whatever my cult, Mullah, Rabbi, sect or Vicar of Dibley tells me, then the non-deluded have every right to monitor their activities and ensure their superstitions cannot overrule the mortal majority.
128

Dave from Skye,

Skye (still) 20/07/2009 20:04:00
Voltaire's janny - I agree that religion is a dangerous thing. But atheists can be dangerous, too. The sad fact is that humans will happily slaughter each other when some resource becomes scarce. Oil. Rubber. Gas. Gullible worshipers. Space in the lifeboat. Whatever. Humans do the killing, not the religion.

It so happens that the two nicest people I know are both committed (as in dedicated) Christians. So I don't openly scorn their faith, even if I have to grind my teeth a little instead.

My main point is - why try to convince them that they're wrong? Will they be the better for it? Happier?

Obviously I'm referring to pacifist religious people, here. By all means poke fun at militant aggressive religious people. From the safety of an anonymous comments column, of course.

Face to face comments such as "Ha Ha! That suicide belt makes you look really dumb!" are probably not a good idea.
129

Do as you please on Sunday,

Balloch, Dunbartonshire 21/07/2009 18:01:10
Well, God let the ferry start up again. I think this stuff about the breakdown of the ferry being "an Act of God" is a load of rubbish. CalMac deserve to be congratulated for ignoring the protests. It seems to me that in the eyes of Free Presbyterians, people who do perfectly innocent things on Sunday that aren't religious are the scum of the earth. Come on you Free Presbyterians, calm down and relax. There's more to life than religion.

 

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