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2,000 Scots fear for their jobs as the Prudential plans £195m cut in costs

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Published Date: 16 March 2007
Job losses likely in order to maintain underperforming UK operation Vague announcement creates 'unnecessary uncertainty' say union News is latest in series of employment blows for Scotland's economy
Key quote
"This means at least six months of uncertainty in the lives of loyal staff based at Stirling. We are looking for clarity and transparency from the Prudential. We expect the company to enter into a genuine dialogue with Amicus with the aim of ending uncertainty and achieving the best possible outcome for the staff." - Amicus spokesperson

Story in full TWO thousand Scottish workers face a six-month wait to discover their future after insurance firm Prudential announced a £195 million cost-cutting plan in an effort to turn around its fortunes.

The firm yesterday began a review of its struggling UK operation, admitting jobs could be lost at Craigforth, near Stirling, where 2,300 staff work.

The union Amicus criticised the announcement, saying it created "unnecessary uncertainty" for the workforce at Britain's second-biggest insurer.

It is the latest in a series of employment blows for Scotland's economy, coming a month after electronics firm Simclar closed its plants in Ayrshire cutting 220 jobs, and eight weeks after NCR, the cash machine producer, revealed it would stop production in Dundee, putting 650 out of work.

Prudential said 2,000 of its 6,000 jobs in the UK were at risk, split between Stirling, Reading and London. Workers yesterday said it was widely rumoured 1,100 of the total would come from Stirling, mostly from IT and customer service departments, but the company declined to comment. A further 1,000 redundancies are expected from existing "offshore" staff in Mumbai.

Prudential yesterday revealed operating profits of £1.98 billion last year - up 15 per cent on 2005 - but indicated cutbacks were necessary to keep its underperforming UK operation in shape.

Nick Prettejohn, chief executive of Prudential UK, said the group was in discussions with outsourcing firms and had "yet to determine" whether the cost savings would come from "off-shoring" to low-wage countries such as India or outsourcing to other companies. Last month, it announced up to 130 jobs would go from Scotland to India over the coming year.

Anne McGuire, Labour MP for Stirling, said: "I have written to Prudential's chief executive seeking to confirm what the situation is in Stirling.

"Obviously, I'll be doing all I can to persuade them to remain in Stirling, where they make a significant contribution.

The company is the largest private sector employer in the city and therefore a valuable element of our local economy."

A spokesman for Amicus said: "This means at least six months of uncertainty in the lives of loyal staff based at Stirling. We are looking for clarity and transparency from the Prudential. We expect the company to enter into a genuine dialogue with Amicus with the aim of ending uncertainty and achieving the best possible outcome for the staff."

But privately, some staff have expressed surprise that the axe has not fallen sooner. A senior worker at Stirling yesterday said: "Cutbacks have been on the cards for some time now. It is grim but the only real shock today was that they haven't yet decided how many will go and from which site.

"A lot of folk were expecting to be told today that they were redundant."

Another said: "Recently there have been continuous reviews of jobs and we have had to frequently re-apply for jobs and go through waiting periods to find out the outcome, so this is almost like business as usual - its part of working at the Pru."

The worker added that the company was holding briefings with staff and sending out e-mail alerts to keep them informed.

Enterprise officials said Stirling's buoyant economy was well-placed to cope if Scottish jobs are cut in the Prudential review. A spokeswoman for Scottish Enterprise Forth Valley said: "The area is doing extremely well at the moment, particularly in Stirling. Unemployment is consistently lower than the national average, the area is well-connected by road and by public transport and there has been £750 million in investment in Falkirk's economy in the past four to five years.

"Obviously there has to be concern at the suggestion of any job losses but it is certainly not a picture of doom and gloom."

She added that Scotland's financial services industry directly accounted for 113,000 jobs. "It is a big and robust sector," she said.

Prudential's review follows a troubled past few years for its UK operation, including a takeover attempt last year by rival, Aviva. Last month, it sold the loss-making credit card and loan business, Egg, to Citigroup for £575 million. Egg lost £145 million last year due to "difficult trading conditions in the UK personal loans market".

Yesterday's cost savings are part of a wider plan to make the firm more competitive. Mr Prettejohn said he was "confident" of making the savings within three years and would give further details on the future of the jobs at stake by the end of this year.

The Amicus spokesman expressed concern that, although it had 400 members working at Craigforth, it was unable to access the site for meetings. "It is one of the issues we'll be seeking to address with the Prudential as soon as possible," he said.

Craigforth, close to the M9 at Stirling, was once the HQ of Prudential's subsidiary, Scottish Amicable, the financial services company whose separate brand name was ditched in 2001. It was built in the early 1950s for workers transferred from its former offices in Glasgow.

David Nisbet, a Merrill Lynch analyst, welcomed Prudential's announcement of a "refinement" of its existing UK business strategy as opposed to a radical shake-up.

Page 1 of 1

 
1

Miss Jean Brodie,

16/03/2007 01:43:28

Never fear for your job - it’s a pathetic train of thought!

look to the future where your current employer considers you a threat to them!

This is just nonsensical propoganda to intimidate the insecure and if your rewally down on yer luck with nothing to lose - ARM yourself - it has worked in countless revolutions throughout history worldwide!!!

2

druidh,

16/03/2007 01:44:40

"Financial sector jobs will be lost with Independence" - err, hello. . . . the current settlement doesn't seem to be doing too well either!

3

Open Minded,

A Better Place 16/03/2007 02:27:31

Have been through this at Widows (like many others).

#1 Well said . Someone gave me good advice including "you will look back at this as a good change". They were right.

#2 Yes. Mike Ross (also ex Wids of course) has regularly been quoted by this paper along these lines. Why don't they drag him out again for another few pearl drops of wisdom.

4

Scullion,

Canada 16/03/2007 03:10:12

Only a financial analyst would consider the potential loss of 2,000 jobs as a "refinement" and not a "radical shake-up". I guess a radical shake-up is when every tenth employee is taken out and shot.

5

jags@firhill,

maryhill 16/03/2007 03:56:43

Inevitable I suppose once Scot. Am was bought over by the Pru - in case of difficulty (Egg losses) shut down Stirling and move the work to Mumbi. Its all a question of buying up any concern, grabbing the customers, and then shutting down the local plant. What directors have been fired over the Egg disaster?

6

J.K.,

16/03/2007 03:57:30

Support businesses that support Scotland. Do not do business with those who don't.

Use your collective power to reward those who stay in Scotland and punish those who leave.

We need to start building our own businesses.

7

Conan,

Here 16/03/2007 03:59:23

I suppose one must take the long view of this situation. The jobs, and many others like them, are no doubt headed for the likes of India. Scotland and its people profited handsomely for a couple of hundred, or more, years from Britain's 'entry' into India and extracted a large amount of India's wealth. Look upon this as time to balance that account. No comfort, of course, for the afflicted, but every change brings an opportunity, or opportunities. Presumably the ones who will benefit from the change that may be coming will be the ones who reconise the impending change and start NOW to prepare for their new opportunity. Happened like that to me a couple of times and each time I ended up far better thean before - and would liiely not have done so but for the prime motivator of seeing the future coming at me and not liking much what I saw. Best of luck to all involved.

8

Conan,

Here 16/03/2007 04:04:38

Oh, and, of course - do STOP doing business with the Pru' ..... sort of goes wothout saying ..... I mean, they should not come to expect that they can have it both ways.

9

www.scottwebb.co.uk.,

16/03/2007 06:29:24

Its going to get a lot worse people but your too dam interested in lifestyle magazines, TV and DENIAL :)

10

www.scottwebb.co.uk.,

16/03/2007 06:36:33

I put new vid links up to explain why.....i don't get paid for this......its just we ain't going to survive this unless we all wake up :) http://www.scottwebb.co.uk/15.html

11

Conan,

Here 16/03/2007 06:47:49

#10 & #11 - OK, what's your point?

12

www.scottwebb.co.uk.,

16/03/2007 06:55:26

My point is it is deliberate and by design......and you PROVE my point

13

www.scottwebb.co.uk.,

16/03/2007 06:59:24

You fit comment 10 nicely :)

14

Conan,

Here 16/03/2007 07:16:33

#14 - I see you're into making points - but not into making any sense - do try harder. I also note that you are not supposed to be using these pages to promote your own commercial enterprise - time to blow the whistle on you, sonny.

15

Sonnaidh,

Baile Leibhin 16/03/2007 07:20:16

Ah #9 - So you anticipate an SNP victory - Braw!

16

www.scottwebb.co.uk.,

16/03/2007 07:25:09

Comment@15 Conan, if I'm banned ...so be it.....im sure that will make your day.....now run along and tell teacher :)

17

The Honest Lad,

16/03/2007 08:12:59

The tip of the iceberg if independance is gained I fear!

18

Bill, Dunblane,

16/03/2007 08:15:58

I always find when talking to anyone in 'offshore' call centres, a very broad Scots accent works wonders.

19

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 08:39:09

6

You have an interesting idea here.Back Scottish business .We should do this of course. Any company who try to use their position to threaten our right to self determination,name them, shame them ,shun them.
Let them explain to their shareholders why their Scottish interests have collapsed because they entered the political arena!

They will leave Scotland alright. We will evict them !

ITS SCOTLANDS TIME!

20

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 08:41:56

18
We are not independent and its happening What are you on?

21

Alastair the First,

16/03/2007 08:55:06

To try to spin this as financial institutions getting out of Scotland before independence is ludicrous. They're cutting jobs under the union!

I think the ex-RBS chairman has rather pulled the rug out from under the feet of the "financial sector will collapse" scare stories.

22

Doh,

16/03/2007 09:02:04

Money doesn't recognise borders.

23

,

16/03/2007 09:04:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

rpb,

16/03/2007 09:12:05

24 you are so right - the problem with Nationalists' views is that they think all the problems in the world will be solved by letting the dregs that already have a little bit of sway over our lives (ie MSPs) have complete control.
Just because they are Scottish and are consumed by the dream of rule by 'the right sort of people' ie Scottish ( or an irrational dislike of the English, but being ruled by Germans/French is ok!) doesn't stop them being totally clueless when it comes to running a successful 21st century economy.

But considering a lot of them go all misty eyed at the words Bannockburn, Culloden, etc you do wonder if they really want to live in today's world at all.

25

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 16/03/2007 09:18:55

I am honestly sorry for those who lose the jobs. The life is what you make it. And these days money makes life.
What surprises me is yesterday there was speaker in the yellow jacket and hands waving enthusiastically. There was an AIDS sign on the poster and I kept on asking. He kept on saying HE IS GOING TO GIVE JOBES. This WAS SNP does this mean in day his gas goes off like the Pepsi we open. Yesterday all looked pleased to se him. Grab him put him back on the same stage and ask him to repeat the speech.
May be Prudential may listen to him You are talking about 2,000 Scots fear for their jobs as the Prudential plans £195m cut in costs
ALASTAIR JAMIESON
CONSUMER AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT
Job losses likely in order to maintain underperforming UK operation Vague announcement creates 'unnecessary uncertainty' say union News is latest in series of employment blows for Scotland's economy
ALASTAIR JAMIESON CONSUMER AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT Can you as the consumer solve this small problem Reporting is fine but are there any ways to replace them? YOU ALSO REPORT THIS IS VAGUE. WHY DO YOU REPORT?

26

Minted IT Professional,

Scotland 16/03/2007 09:26:06

I left Craigforth a number of years ago. I did so after becoming extremely tired of the insular culture, and the unfair reward, recognition and promotion system, which is based more on who you play golf with or who you drink with in the Hillfoots towns at the weekend, rather than genuine ability and one's contribution to Business results. However, I suspect that nobody will be honest enough or daring enough to formally raise this in the media.

Frankly, and regrettably, I think that yesterday's announcement has been precipitated by this culture and the resulant lack of progress in growing the Business and improving efficiency.

The hordes of Craigforth staff in Customer Services and IT who joined there from school with only basic qualifications are, I suspect, now in for a very rude awakening indeed.

27

von-Scharnhorst,

Berlin-Preußen (ex Bathgate) 16/03/2007 09:31:39

"Prudential yesterday revealed operating profits of £1.98 billion last year - up 15 per cent on 2005 "

"2,000 Scots fear for their jobs as the Prudential plans £195m cut in costs"

THEN they turn around and want "Company loyalty" from the STAFF?

Aye bloody RIGHT laddie! You can shove your "loyalty" where the sun don't shine.

28

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 09:31:47

22
Indeed.His track record is one of new highs for a Scottish based company.

His opinion really does count!

Labour s world is falling apart.Thank God their activists will stay with the sinking ship till the very end.
Then they will find their true level.(sunk without trace)

29

Richard Lionheart,

16/03/2007 10:20:37

There is no doubt that we live in a global market place. Is it surprising that companies like Prudential take cognisance of that fact?

Labour has failed during it’s time in office to attract non governmental job’s to Scotland. They have gone out of their way to make starting business and maintaining business in Scotland as difficult as possible.

Scotland cannot afford to lose these jobs and we all want to know what the Industry Minister is doing about it.

From another angle, Prudential may be able to achieve a 60% reduction in its CO2 emissions by this move, that’s what important to Joke McConnell

30

Boab,

Glasgow 16/03/2007 10:33:02

That's technology and global capital for you. Some day, shareholders and company directors will live on planet Mars. Earth will be run by six people in a call centre based in Mumbai and the rest of us will be living in cardboard boxes, wondering where the jobs went.

We really need to rein in private wealth.

31

Ian G,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 11:09:04

Strange I never read any news about the Prudential pulling out of Scotland due to the Union of the Kingdoms.

Could it be the Independence of the United Kingdom to be blamed?

Na of course not it canna be placed at the SNPs door.

Being a part of the U.K. dinna save jobs then!

32

HMFC99,

Shruighlea 16/03/2007 11:11:06

Nos 27 & 31 hit the nail on the head. The situation at the Pru has nothing to do with politics. The writing has been on the wall ever since the Pru took over ScotAm. Unfortunately the Pru will eventually close Craigforth, I will be surprised if they are still there in ten years time.

The other part of the equation is that a fair portion of the staff at Craigforth are outsourced to another financial services company St James Place who are performing well at the moment but could pull the plug in the future if they start to slip.

33

HMFC99,

Sruighlea 16/03/2007 11:19:46

Nos 27 & 31 hit the nail on the head. The situation at the Pru has nothing to do with politics. The writing has been on the wall ever since the Pru took over ScotAm. Unfortunately the Pru will eventually close Craigforth, I will be surprised if they are still there in ten years time.

The other part of the equation is that a fair portion of the staff at Craigforth are outsourced to another financial services company St James Place who are performing well at the moment but could pull the plug in the future if they start to slip.

34

Stewarty,

16/03/2007 11:26:56

The faceless spokeswoman from Scottish Enterprise Forth Valley shows that she is out of touch with her "spin". She needs to face the reality that the loss of a substantial number of jobs at Craigforth will have a devastating effect upon the good folk of Stirling and its economy and no silly words such as she has spouted will conceal that.

The announcement yesterday represents a watershed for Anne McGuire, Stirling's usually supine MP, and local MSP Sylvia Jackson, in that their actions in the coming weeks and how effective they are in fighting Stirling's corner, will determine their own fate as continuing representatives of the people. Sylvia Jackson will need to make a virtually instant public impression if she is to survive on 3rd May, given that she already has a Labour millstone around her neck.

Slippylizard #24 rightly states that Indian based telephonists cannot and do not supply a service - often their language and cultural capabilities are all too lacking. I get fed up with the number of calls I receive from people purporting to be "Kevin" or "Jason" trying to flog me things who when asked basic questions stumble and stutter because they have not got a grasp of the English language.

If I ring National Rail Enquiries Service, I am then faced with someone in India called "Steve" or "Lee" who does not know their Tonbridge from their Tunbridge Wells, or their Machynlleth from their Macclesfield with predictable results.

I will vote for any party on 3rd May which undertakes to proceed with all steps available to protect Scottish jobs. Given its recent and past record, I fear that Labour has excluded itself from this consideration.

Finally, support the existing staff at Craigforth by sticking with Prudential in the meantime, but make it absolutely clear to the company NOW that if it rapes and pillages its workforce at a later date, there will be adverse consequences for it.

<
35

Upbeat,

16/03/2007 12:10:38

20 morris

I admit I don't normally pay much attention to what you write, it does remind me of the situation in Dundee in the 1980's when employees committed industrial suicide by refusing to modernise their attitude to new work practices.

Today your suggestions hold unquantifiable damage for Scotland... You suggest naming and shaming companies that put pressure on Scotland by having some political agenda.

You also suggest that "shunning "them might be a useful weapon.

This is infantile.

Does your view of Scotland not welcome all the companies that will provide employment in Scotland for Scottish people. Shunning a company like you suggest will simply reduce turnover and cause it to shed even more jobs. It may then close, or relocate even sooner.

Perhaps you can explain what advantage you see in your vindictive and hopeless solution.

36

Glenn,

England 16/03/2007 12:26:02

Interesting headline..."2,000 Scots"...I imagine then that no English or other nationalities are in employ of Prudential with their job at risk?

While I feel for the families who may be affected here I must point out that companies in other countries do fire staff as well...it is not a condition unique to Scots...no great conspiracy. The Isle of Dogs, in Londons Docklands...150,000, that's right one hundred and fifty thousand people were fired when it was closed down...and I don't think all of them were Scots.

To claim this is directed at Scots alone and part of some secret vendetta is not only preposterous but racist. I find the suggestion offensive.

Having said that, if you want to blame someone then look to your parent company and its greed then find a solution with your wallets...IE:Shop with companies who are not affilliated with Prue. The more companies who are punished for their greed, the fewer companies will risk greed when they all start to fall.

Don't just whinge...don't just blame...look for the solution!

37

Enzo,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 12:42:01

I don't see how independence or otherwise has anything to do with this? Companies don't stay open / expand / contract based on their sentiment to the ethnic make up of the local populace - it is all down to business reasons. If we were independent this would still be happening.
There will now follow all the usual bollox about strengthening the brand, rationalising operations for the good of the customer and so on. Of more interest would be the hidden bonus payments given to those at the centre of these types of decisions.
PS I am not some immature guy speculating on how these things are decided, but someone who has been in charge of Payroll system at a major financial institution. It stinks, frankly.

38

Mario Antoinette aka lots of things,

16/03/2007 12:57:00

I put this down to complacency and Shoddiness in scotlands financial sector. Look at the mess of Standard Life, and they are supposed to be the best.

Some good may come out of this , all the Sheilas and Trevors that work for these companies may be shaken out of their complacency.

The world doesnt owe them a living. 1st majot things you do with a low performance company is get rid of the dead wood - that is what is happening here. If you work for the Pru and want to keep your job - shape up.

39

G,

dundy 16/03/2007 12:58:42

#2

The article never once mentioned indpendence - I'll be kind to you and complete your thought and assume that you are trying to claim that these jobs would be safe in an independent Scotland?

Of course globalisation would be reversed and all economic forces would cease to act if only we were....

40

Mario Antoinette aka lots of things,

16/03/2007 12:58:44

Staff costs are the largest costs for Insurance/Financial companies (if not all companies). Of course jobs need to go if the company is not performing.

Personally I would love to see some more Social responsibility on the workplace , but Im not holding my breath.

41

Mario Antoinette aka lots of things,

16/03/2007 13:06:11

Last word to people working at the Pru - GET OUT.

I repeat , staff costs are the largest costs. Of course jobs will go.

42

canucksbear,

Edina 16/03/2007 13:24:14

Mario, have you read any of the other Pru stories from yesterday?

Profits of £1.98bn ... if anyone's underperforming at the Pru it's staff you'll rarely see in Stirling. The one's that took the decision not to sell Egg to Capital One for £1.4bn just over 2 years ago, but then decided to sell it to Citi for £575m last month.

The likelihood that they will fall on their swords? I will not hold my breath.

43

unhappy chappy,

Largs 16/03/2007 13:42:48

Try phoning any UK Prudential Number and you end up speaking to someone in India. Is this where all the forecasted lost jobs will end up. If they don't support the British worker then the British worker should not support them. Take your business elsewhere and Prudential will soon recognise the error of their ways.

44

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 14:28:06

37
The feeling is mutual.I pay no attention to anything that you say,and after may 3rd I shall pay even less if that possible.
Where closures exist and free market forces dictate this we have to learn to deal with it. Where companies seek to interfere in the democratic process by threatening their staff with redundancies when clearly no need exists then I consider it my duty to do what I can to help.
When they enter the political arena and make statements(in advance) to the effect that they will pull out if Scotland becomes independent then I do what all who belive in free market forces do and take my business elsewhere, as is my choice. This is a company who are leaving anyway remember according to them unless I back down on self determination. Im not backing down.End of debate as far as I am concerned

45

Mario Antoinette,

(the original one) 16/03/2007 14:32:22

Those of you who remember the '80s housing boom will recall this same "Prudential" bought a chain of estate agents for £200m and sold it in the early '90s for £25m. No one was held accountable for this fiasco, of course, the boss probably paid himself a performance bonus.

Prudential have never managed a penny of mine since.

46

Glenn,

England 16/03/2007 14:35:23

Interesting headline..."2,000 Scots"...I imagine then that no English or other nationalities are in employ of Prudential with their job at risk?

While I feel for the families who may be affected here I must point out that companies in other countries do fire staff as well...it is not a condition unique to Scots...no great conspiracy. The Isle of Dogs, in Londons Docklands...150,000, that's right one hundred and fifty thousand people were fired when it was closed down...and I don't think all of them were Scots.

To claim this is directed at Scots alone and part of some secret vendetta is not only preposterous but racist. I find the suggestion offensive.

Having said that, if you want to blame someone then look to your parent company and its greed then find a solution with your wallets...IE:Shop with companies who are not affilliated with Prue. The more companies who are punished for their greed, the fewer companies will risk greed when they all start to fall.

Don't just whinge...don't just blame...look for the solution!

47

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 14:37:54

41
He claims nothing of the sort as you well know /What he ridicules is the claim that independence would automatically lead to job losses here in Scotland and points out here is a company who just announced a profit,and in the same week are apparently closing their Scottish operation down.Are they surrendering their Scottish customers accounts? Definitely not!
Just their staff here!
The United Kingdom loses jobs in exactly the same way as we are lead to believe would happen as a result of independence although I agree that cheaper wages costs are probably the cause here.
It does not matter after May 3rd anyway because we shall see the start of the demise of all Unionist parties.The Tory party was only stage 1 .The Lib Dems and New Labour will eventually join them .

48

Mario Antoinette aka lots of things,

16/03/2007 14:46:40

47, Beat it. I know who I am.

49

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 14:59:21

36
I feel for the workforce at Stirling,but the writing is on the wall for all employees in Scotland.
We cannot guarantee anything within or outwith the UK,but what will be abundantly clear to the workforce is that Westminster and Labour offer absolutely no protection whatsoever.
Would it be better under Edinburgh? Probably it makes little if any difference,but it cant be any worse than it is for the workers at Stirling !
I'm not saying independence has any bearing here.Quite the opposite in fact. Its the mischievous Tory imbeciles who suggest that independence would mean jobs would disappear.They are already disappearing you dolts.Look at Ravenscraig! WE should have learned our lesson then!

50

Mario Antoinette aka lots of things,

16/03/2007 15:08:48

Sounds like the made some pretty stupid decisions.

The only political intervention that makes ANY MAJOR difference to this kind of stuff is a lowering of Corporation tax rates , even if the SNP got into power it would probably take 5 years until scotland could have the power to do that.

51

Upbeat,

16/03/2007 15:16:04

46,48,50 morris

so you came back from covering the other comment boards with your thoughts.

While you ignore all posts by those you assume disagree with you you will continue to live in some isolationist bubble of your own mind.

Just be careful that you don't end up disappointed when you find that getting your own way is not what you expected it to be, once again.

Should we conclude that you are one who has voted Labour all your life, and now find that that doctrine could not deliver the utopia you sought either ?

52

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia, Canada 16/03/2007 15:46:20

It is always interesting to note.. often, when companies(and it is in this case) cut back ..they are still making a good profit....they just want MORE .
This is why "privatization' of publice services..be it schools, hospitals, railroads...(the companies)do NOT serve public..
they serve their shareholders first...greedy shareholders at that.

53

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 16:07:57

If I was the Pru I'd be moving away from a union dominated workforce who have obviously made life so miserable for 'the management' they feel they the only alternative is sack the whole lot.

The union rep on the box last night was just a repulsive little man 'demanding' this, 'demanding' that ...

I never like to see Scots jobs going but by heck some folk bring it on themselves by choosing these out dated, backward looking and self important Unions to 'look after the workers' - all they do is price themselves out of the market .. that's why you have job losses ...

Alarm bells are ringing and nobody's listening ...

54

worriedenglishman,

england 16/03/2007 16:11:39

It's time- time to to switch to RBS/Natwest who promise U.K call centres.

55

Glenn,

16/03/2007 16:29:57

Don't just censor it...its a solution...or would you prefer to just whinge? Thats what we did in the old country before I became an immigrant to your country.

Interesting headline..."2,000 Scots"...I imagine then that no English or other nationalities are in employ of Prudential with their job at risk?

While I feel for the families who may be affected here I must point out that companies in other countries do fire staff as well...it is not a condition unique to Scots...no great conspiracy. The Isle of Dogs, in Londons Docklands...150,000, that's right one hundred and fifty thousand people were fired when it was closed down...and I don't think all of them were Scots.

To claim this is directed at Scots alone and part of some secret vendetta is not only preposterous but racist. I find the suggestion offensive.

Having said that, if you want to blame someone then look to your parent company and its greed then find a solution with your wallets...IE:Shop with companies who are not affilliated with Prue. The more companies who are punished for their greed, the fewer companies will risk greed when they all start to fall.

Don't just whinge...don't just blame...look for the solution!

56

iain,

edinburgh 16/03/2007 17:48:58

Aye ...gee me Buckie noooooooooooooo!

57

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 17:50:47

52
Of course I am not a person who has voted Labour all my life.
They would tear up my SNP membership (which I have held all of my life)!
I have worked as a local government officer,in management in private industry at the age of twenty one I might add,and in public services whilst being a shop steward in UNISON NALGO.
It shows how much you can work things out!
Away and put your name down for a brain transplant,( but beware of rejection),and I don't mean from the waiting list.
I represent the new Scotland.Your right wing drivel has been soundly booted out of Scotland and will be again after May 3rd.
ITS TIME

58

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 18:07:17

56
The article refers to a Scottish town (Stirling) and appears in a newspaper called the SCOTSMAN which claims to be Scotlands national newspaper. It seems reasonable then to assume that a collective term for them might be "scots" since the majority presumably live here (They work here so it seems reasonable). I would have thought that this was self evident?
Nobody is suggesting that this is peculiar to Scotland,but the town of Stirling certainly is!
Of course I suppose the workforce could commute from Australia every day Doh!
IM glad you came on here because I would have been willing to bet that nobody could be stupid enough to presume as you have done,and I would have been wrong.Thank You .

59

snoozyowl,

Wales 16/03/2007 18:11:59

Trouble with financial services is that anybody (or anybody's computer) can do them from anywhere. There's nothing clever or unique about our offerings. All that counts now are the brands and the regulatory environment, and some of the UK's brands were not exactly enhanced by various mis-selling episodes, not to mention the dot com disaster. Services employment in the coming decades is going to be tricky with all those educated Indians and Chinese competing at a tiny fraction of UK costs. They and others have already eaten our manufacturing for breakfast, and it's coming up to lunchtime.

60

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 18:30:08

60
I dont doubt for one second the wisdom of what you say. I wish I could!

Its reality,and this will not go away,but thats all the more reason why we must each look after our own.

Good Luck to Wales.

Its particularly bad from our perspective since we have / did have a fair bit of financial services industries jobs in and around Edinburgh,but thats definitely not guaranteed long term. I liked the comment about get behind RBS from an earlier post. I practically live next door to their corporate HQ and seriously will consider transferring my world there.
This could happen anywhere in the UK and probably will.

61

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 16/03/2007 18:30:37

Why are so many post's fearful of independence.

Many exiles are looking forward to the day when we can enjoy being associated with a true nation.

For you football fans I can tell you thousands of we Scots will be cheering on our U 20 Scots when they visit Vancouver this year.( I know this has nothing to do with insurnace.)

C'mon Scotland...grow up.. take pride.The negative folks are just scared at being taken off the Westminster tit.

All the best.

62

Miss Jean Brodie,

16/03/2007 19:14:56

Hmm tra la la tra la la - tum tee tum -dip dip dip hmmm tum tee tum

oh it’s here at last Independence

Oh and look what’s happened the worlds still turning - looks like there was nuthin tae feer efter aw!

Must have just been yer paranoia

and what’s mare it rains in England and it rains in Scotland - flippin amazin eh?

63

Upbeat,

16/03/2007 19:20:12

Morris

Unusually I have read most of your thoughts today, noting your frequent insulting and rude ones too. Telling people to leave Scotland as you do so often just isn't a reasonable way to talk to Scottish people.....if you have had the employment status that you claim for yourself... you should know that.

I and some others may still be waiting/ hoping for an answer to the question I asked this morning and which you avoided giving any response to...too busy as usual trying to divert attention from real debate about SNP policy I suppose...

<<<<<" Does your view of Scotland not welcome all the companies that will provide employment in Scotland for Scottish people. Shunning a company like you suggest will simply reduce turnover and cause it to shed even more jobs. It may then close, or relocate even sooner.

Perhaps you can explain what advantage you see in your vindictive and hopeless solution." .>>>

or have you no opinion on this ? after your outbusrt this morning ?

64

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 19:25:16

62
62
Why indeed?
I can only conclude that it involves their personal circumstances.
A lot of "Scots" are in fact English born and I can understand their reluctance although they have nothing to fear of course.Many are born here, but have English relatives and that may affect their views on their Britishness which they definitely are,and their Scottishness which they partly are in a sense but in fact in living here qualify as far as the SNP are concerned.In fact the qualification is that you want to be a Scot as far as I am concerned.
The economics are sound.The legality is sound.The logic of imperialism or subservience by choice does not exist.What does that leave?
I can see no other explanation.
For the record I am 50% Scots blood,and the rest is Canadian (Quebecois)but born in Leith.
I could not feel more scots than I do!Im also an internationalist who would extend the hand of friendship to any man who has the good sense to accept it.

65

Upbeat,

16/03/2007 19:30:30

65 morris again
" Im also an internationalist who would extend the hand of friendship to any man who has the good sense to accept it."


But not if he is a fellow scot that holds opposing views to you.

Then you tell him his type is not wanted in Scotland .

Nice one. !

66

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 19:35:15

64
I was referring to companies who had already stated they intend to desert their Scottish workforce.That was always what I referred to.Everybody else has understood this apart from you. I have never suggested in my life,far less on here that people should leave Scotland?
Why would I?
How can I lose jobs which are already lost? Have you understood what I said?I seriously doubt it.
For the record MSN access has been down most of the day here,and I am currently signed into here through Hotmail through an American access of MSN which I retained from years ago. The reason I was absent for much of the day was I had no choice.
Now will you go away please . I'm asking nicely OK.

67

Upbeat,

16/03/2007 19:40:41

52 morris

so you have a short memory

here's what you said in reply to me earlier.

"Away and put your name down for a brain transplant,( but beware of rejection),and I don't mean from the waiting list.
I represent the new Scotland.Your right wing drivel has been soundly booted out of Scotland and will be again after May 3rd"

I leave it to others to interpret for themsleves exactly what you meant by this.

and again you now ask me ( nicely ) to go away. Please tell me why I should...you are the one with all the "New Scotland" ideas. LOL

68

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 19:43:53

It refers to the reujection of the Conservative Party which has been removed from Scotland to the extent that it will struggle to survive.
YOU ARE AN IDIOT

69

Upbeat,

16/03/2007 19:44:58

52 should read 67 sorry

70

Upbeat,

16/03/2007 19:46:16

Morris 69

Temper temper ! Tch Tch !

71

Derick fae Yell,

16/03/2007 20:25:35

Main Article yes I read it tonight
"Job losses likely in order to maintain underperforming UK operation "
Says it all really.

#7 Conon "every change brings an opportunity, or opportunities".
YES. If it hadn't been for that asteroid - we would all be speaking Dinosaur.

#27 probably true. It will be good for them. Goodbye Dependency HELLO World.

Stopped doing business with Scottish Widows the day after Mike Ross started shouting politics

72

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 20:54:26

64 .. Well put ...

The unions are getting way above themselves again and ruining business left right and centre not to mention holding the public to ransom (not so much so in this case admittedly)

The unions are the underlying cause for PRU wanting to relocate ... they treat their employers like dirt and think it is some sort of favour they are doing management by accepting their monthly salary. Any other country in the EU and beyond would be glad of their presence and the boost to the local economy .. not in Scotland though - the unions make sure of that.

Not that any of this really matters the unions will continue to rape business after business until their is non left that can sustain their membership ... even then they'll probably find a way to blame someone else for their own short sightedness and selfish interest and conceited outlook.

We need to break the unions now and stop them from making Scotland one of the most backward nations in Europe.

73

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 21:09:51

PS Upbeat .. is it me or does Morris just sound like another bigotted, commie, anti business, envious, chippy 'Scot' who thinks that all 'workers' are somehow 'exploited' rather than privelidged to have a reasonably god job with decent hours and reasonable pay.

If he/she is representative of the population it is no wonder companies are seeking to move away.

Far from abandoning their workforce if PRU have folk like Morris working for them - they are ridding themselves of a huge pain in the posterior.

Well done the unions! Bet your members will be thanking you for all your 'capitalist busting' endeavours over the years ... well done you, you've just held a shotgun to 2000 members heads and today you killed them - not the PRU ... hope your pleased.

74

Derick fae Yell,

16/03/2007 21:27:24

Voldemort - simplistic to blame it all on the unions. or indeed all on the 'management'. An interesting issue this one, why companies rise and fall?

If you have the answer please forward it to me on a £1bn Bawbee note please.

Hey, post Independence, post Pound, the Scottish Currency MUST be the Bawbee. I demand it!

PS dunna onybody start wi your unionist pysh

75

Upbeat,

16/03/2007 21:30:55

74. Voldemort,

I am not in the game of judging character here. We're all using aliases after all.

I will agree with you by saying that I find it sad when people who can express themselves well, have learned to debate, and have a lifetime of experience in all sorts of spheres of employment, which they are able to offer Scotland, are dismissed as being anti Scottish.

It's part of the" them and us" side of the Scots character. The one that hates to be laughed at.

This used to be summed up by the saying "I canny you shanny". and this negativity has torn down anyone who aspired to be great in Scotland for a long, long time. It is why so many successful Scots have left, and continue to go. Until the attitude to success changes here, there is little hope I fear..the 'upbeat' is that it can only get better through education, and people need to be prepared to listen to a wide range of ideas so as to learn to make wise choices.

76

morris,

Edinburgh 16/03/2007 21:32:04

70
What happens on May 3rd will decide what the popularly held view in Scotland is. Lets leave it at that because Im confident and then some.If however I should be proven wrong I will be the first to acknowledge that my views were not those of the majority.Thats where we differ. Your views have already been rejected by the electorate here,and depend upon PR to survive if the truth be known.
What I will certainly appologise for is if I genuinely give you the impression that I would deny you the right to hold any views ,then I must say I would never do this.Oppose you yes,but never deny you the right to freedom of speech.
We dont agree
Its pointless for us to go any further with this.
That does not mean that you will not find other playmates of course. We should agree to differ.

77

Upbeat,

16/03/2007 21:39:16

77 morris

Thanks

So our viewpoints do differ a bit, although we both of us remain committed to Scotland.

but alls fair in the end. and that is what democracy is all about isn't it ?

tata.

78

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia, Canada. 16/03/2007 23:30:13

Hae! you uns..they are all going tae China , India,
or Bangladesh.( with company offices)...so ye can kin agae bargae all ye want !..it winnae mak any difference.

79

McBUNKEY,

massachusetts 17/03/2007 04:31:41

THE MIDDLE CLASS IS BEING SCREWED IN EVERY COUNTRY BY THE RICH...THEY GOT THEIRS AND THE HELL WITH YOU ...AND YOUR JOBS WILL BE SENT TO INDIA...Ooops! ARE BEING SENT TO INDIA. THERE ARE BILLIONAIRES IN EVERY COUNTRY, AND ITS A GROWING NUMBER...THEY GOT THEIRS, THEY WANT YOURS AND THE BEST WAY TO GET YOURS IS FOR THEM TO TAKE YOUR GOOD JOBS AND SEND THEM TO 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES. THEY ARE PLUNDERING THE WORLD FOR THEIR IMMEDIATE GAIN. THEIR ATTITUDE IS THE HELL WITH YOU, ME, AND EVEN THEIR OWN GRAND CHILDREN AS LONG AS THEY"LEAD A GOOD LIFE". THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND.

80

The Wizard,

OZ 17/03/2007 06:24:05

Whatever happened to 'The Man from the PRU' who used to call on my granny for her sixpence a week?

Don't know much about the Pru situation but transferring jobs offshore is the name of the game right now. Down here it looks like Quantas will be sold and I would bet on jobs being lost. Already, the maintenance staff are predicting a loss of the airlines safety record if jobs move to India or wherever.
The Indian call centres are a pain in the butt, they always ring at dinner time trying to sell something or give me a free phone. I can hardly understand them so I just say 'yer sum bliddy furriner an ah canny unnerstuan a bliidy wird yer saying so git aff ma bone an awa an huv yer curry"
Seems they get the message.

81

Pru Worker,

Stirling 17/03/2007 14:15:39

Folks, I work in the Pru in Stirling & the atmosphere is shocking. The announcements to staff on Thursday were actually pretty shoddy as we all expected more & certainly the briefing I attended seemed quite light-hearted. I was disgusted as the speaker made jokes & decided to use the stage as his own chance to audition for the Comedy Store. All staff walked out with heads low & morale even lower. Why work within projects that aren't going to boost the sales of Pru Personal Pensions!!?
If I didn't have a family & a mortgage, I would have walked out there & then on Thursday. In Stirling, it's a case of, 'If your face fits & you are seen to be attending the right news sessions & staying on to drink with the high heid yins & @rse-lick'.
It was a sad day when Scot-Am was no more & I think I'll be glad to see the back of Pru. I hope to god that a reasonable Financial Institution interested in expanding it's UK Business buys Craigforth & keeps the skills of the existing PRu IT & Business Transormation staff onboard. Stop talking about politics guys, just stand by your fellow man & lend a helping hand when prompted.


 

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