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Scots farmers abandon hope of Westminster foot-and-mouth pay-out

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Published Date: 18 October 2007
SCOTTISH farmers have given up negotiating with UK ministers over compensation for the foot-and-mouth crisis, as the rift between Westminster and the Scottish Government over welfare pay-outs deepened.
The National Farmers Union Scotland (NFUS) said the door was now "firmly slammed" at Westminster and it was going back to crisis talks with the Scottish Government.

After a disappointing two-day trip to Westminster, James Withers, the NFUS deputy
president, said:

"Our options are far fewer now. We will only launch legal action, though, once all avenues have been exhausted."

During a debate on the foot-and-mouth outbreak in the Commons, it was suggested that Scottish farmers should seek to cover their losses from the Scottish Government's "£1 billion surplus".

Ian Davidson, Labour MP for Glasgow South West, told MPs that Scots farmers unions should be asking the "Scottish Executive" for compensation cash.

And he asked: "Does it not seem either astonishingly naive or deliberately misleading [for] [SNP] members opposite to be saying it is all Westminster's responsibility, when the Scottish Executive has only recently been given £1 billion of unspent money for previous years?"

The remarks were dismissed by Mr Withers of the NFUS as a "complete distraction", and he insisted farmers were too busy fighting for survival to engage in a political agenda.

Mr Davidson's statement had been made during an intervention. But other MPs were furious that no Scottish MPs were called during the three-hour foot-and-mouth debate.

Angus MacNeil, an SNP MP and crofter, said:

"This debate was simply not representative of Scotland - not one Scottish MP was called to speak, in effect cutting Scotland out. The attitude of the government is disgraceful."

Hilary Benn, the Environment Secretary, was heckled by opposition MPs when he said there was "not a shred of truth in the allegation" that £8 million had been offered, then withdrawn, to Scots farmers after Gordon Brown called off a general election. Mr Benn insisted it was the responsibility of the Scottish Government to provide aid.

During the debate, a Tory motion condemning the government's "negligent" approach to biosecurity at the Pirbright laboratory site was defeated. A government amendment pledging to work with the farming industry to resume market activity as soon as possible was carried without a vote.

Mr Benn faced criticism after a two-hour meeting last night with farmers and Scots MPs ended in deadlock.

Alistair Carmichael, the Lib Dem spokesman for Scotland, who led the delegation, said: "This meeting confirmed my fears that DEFRA does not wish to compensate Scotland's farmers as they are legally and morally obliged to do."



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 October 2007 8:46 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Foot and mouth
 
1

Huttcity,

17/10/2007 23:52:16

Does it not seem either astonishingly naive or deliberately misleading [for] [SNP] members opposite to be saying it is all Westminster's responsibility, when the Scottish Executive has only recently been given £1 billion of unspent money for previous years?"

What a scumbag. Maybe he wants Wendys job.

2

Boaby Dazzler,

18/10/2007 00:04:30

Not only are Scottish Labour MPs not sticking up for Scottish farmers but they actually seem to relish putting the boot in.

3

Blarney,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 00:32:38

We can expect to see much more of this attitude to Scotland being exposed due to the government at Holyrood being SNP. And due to the government at Holyrood being SNP it will no doubt be intensified. It is both sad and embarrassing that our elected unionist MPs and MSPs are prepared to abandon us at any cost to further their parties interests.
It is also extremely sad that we do not have an impartial media in this country.
Roll on the next elections.

4

Blarney,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 00:34:39

Where is Cod Puss today anyway?
"I will stand up for Scotland", that's another promise Scottish Labour has failed to keep.

5

Jimbo2,

18/10/2007 00:49:15

Davidson certainly proves the Labour Party's well used cliche that 'You can put a monkey up wearing a red rosette and the eejits will vote for it.'

6

Hamish MacBeth,

NZ 18/10/2007 01:21:15

Copy and paste this article and keep it for when the next time AM2. Opens his gob.
Roll on the next elections.

7

FooFoo,

18/10/2007 02:08:09

I can't see how this can possibly be a Scottish Executive issue. To my knowledge the decision to prevent movement of animals etc was taken by the Westminster government, and therefore any compensation to be paid should come from the Westminster budget.

This is going to turn into a huge political football, and the SNP could come out of this extremely well if they do pay out (much as I don't think they have an obligation to). Labour's tactic would have backfired and I would presume that people would be driven further towards the SNP.

8

Guga II,

Rockall 18/10/2007 03:11:56

I just hope everyone, including the Scottish farmers, remember this at the next elections. And, of course, remember that the New Labour Numpty Party (Scottish Branch) did nothing at all to help them; not even been a cheep from The Mouth of the South.

The sooner we are independent, the better.

9

guga 1111,

Rockall 18/10/2007 03:26:12

#9, Guga 11,

Couldn't agree more!

10

Mad King Bambo,

Roon at Flabskin's bit 18/10/2007 04:08:38

#2 Boaby
"Not only are Scottish Labour MPs not sticking up for Scottish farmers but they actually seem to relish putting the boot in."

The failed social workers and public sector jobsworths who line the Nu-lab benches despise farmers and farming. These metropolitan fops know that farmers are all rich toffs who ride around the country in red jackets shooting agricultural laboureres and hurting fluffy wee foxes. They love it whenever they hear of farmers in difficulty, and they love it even more if they can put an extra boot in.

Fact is this is great news for Scotland. The money at issue is a pittance in terms of the amounts governments spend, and the SE will
find it without any difficulty. But it's another massive own goal from a party that seems to have an unmatched ability to lash it into their own net right from the other end of the park.

I wouldn't be surprised if it puts 10% on the SNP vote, and more in the constituencies directly affected.

11

Anne, Glasgow,

18/10/2007 05:14:43

Scottish Labour MPs seem to hate and despise their own country. Their attitude constantly baffles me. Their English counterparts have more respect for Scotland. Ian Davison's comments about the SNP don't surprise me at all, but he seems to forget the main issue and it is the loss the Scottish farmers have faced because of a situation in England, far removed from our own country. Disgraceful

12

Boy Wonder,

18/10/2007 05:48:37

I hope the electorate see the New Labour party now in its true colours as I have done over the last few years. Everything they do now is so anti-Scots that it will come back and bite them on their collective bums ... which will be oot the windae by the way!!!

13

SouthernSkye,

18/10/2007 05:56:25

I do not understand this at all. Uk Govt caused the outbreak, UK Govt put the movement bans in place, UK GOvt paid during the 2001 outbreak, DEFRA is a cross-border body whose authority reaches into Scotland and Wales, the entire UK was treated as one area by the EU.
So why, when compensation is required, is it suddenly (and not in 2001) a devolved issue.
NuLab Scotland have been very quiet. The Scottish Tory MP did come out in support of Scottish farmers (crofters etc).
It is a shame that this has become a political football when peoples "jobs" are at stake and animal welfare is such an issue.
I trust the SNP will sort something out even though it is not theirs to sort.

14

Eckyboo,

18/10/2007 05:59:07

#13. So true, I think that the Scots are now being punished by the Labour UK Government for daring to elect an alternative. We were bad boys and girls for electing an SNP lead executive so now we are being punished. The same I fear will happen in Wales if they ever elect Plaid Cymru as ruling executive.

15

conservative,

Fife 18/10/2007 06:58:33

To get to the real issue here why on earth do we keep having to bail these farmers out every time something goes wrong for them? Too little rain, too much rain, foot and mouth, hail and pestilence - farmers coin it in the good times and we pay for their mercedes in the bad times. I've been made redundant several times now but never a bail-out from the UK government. Whinging farmers!!

16

malkster,

Scotland 18/10/2007 07:13:28

#17

Good point I hear about poor farmers all the time but never seem to meet one they work in probably the most protected industry in the world with no idea of real life economics.

17

james 1st,

nz 18/10/2007 07:16:03

scottish farmers and other british farmers operate at considerable disadvantage already to say new zealand or australian farmers. dollar exchange rates with the pound and the us$ are low and act as a very effective subsidy of australian and new zealand agriculture
the foot and mouth outbreak was beyond the control of scottish farmers and the emergency rules were dictated by westminster, therefore westminster should pay the relevant compensation.
as to 17 above whilst i have no doubt some farmers are coining the money others struggle and should not be put out of business because of a foot and mouth outbreak in england
also i wonder if when you have been made redundant you have had the cheek to accept welfare payments considering your comment above

18

Organic peasant,

N E Scotland 18/10/2007 07:25:35

Lets be 100% clear about this, it is DEFRA that is responsible for F&M payments , they have already paid them in England, the only reason we have not had the same as 2001 is we no longer have a tame government here.
As a farmer the complete ignorance of those who criticise us is very disheartening, they seem to be engaged in a desperate attempt to shift the blame for this disgraceful episode on to the victims.

19

Feenon,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 07:29:46

Since when was farming a DEVOLVED issue?

As it is not, this means all farming matters are dealt with through Westminster. So farmers across all of the UK should be dealt with in the same way.

Or is that too obvious?

20

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 18/10/2007 07:38:38

This is NOT an SE issue. DEFRA called the shots, imposed movement bans and restrictions upon a country that was 400 miles from the outbreak.

In that case, DEFRA need to dig deep in thier pockets. I truly hope the SNFU raise a class action against these clowns.

21

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 07:51:08

#8, #14, #23 You are mistaken. It was a decision of the Scottish Government to impose a movement ban:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Agriculture/animal-welf...

#22 Farming is a devolved issue. See schedule 5 of the Scotland Act, which ensures that even issues of trade, which are otherwise reserved, are for agriculture devolved.

#20 You too are mistaken. DEFRA is responsible, as the precedent of 2001 demonstrates, for compensation following the destruction of animals as a result of actual or suspected cases of Foot and Mouth. No such destruction has occurred in Scotland on this occasion.

This is a very complex issue, but for me what cuts right through it is the fact that the Scottish Government decided unilaterally, as is their absolute right and responsibility, to put in place a light lambs compensation scheme at £15 a head. Surely, if they expected DEFRA to pay for this they would have had to agree the level of compensation and the conditions of the scheme with the UK government. But they acted unilaterally.

I completely defend the right of the Scottish Government to act in the interests of our farmers in this way. But to suggest after the fact that DEFRA should pay for this and any other scheme which they decide on, is akin to asking for a blank cheque.

Here is how I think this will be, and has to be, resolved. The Scottish Government must put in place the compensation schemes it deems necessary. It is responsible for Scottish farmers' welfare and must act in their interests. It must then establish what elements of the DEFRA schemes for England are being directly funded by Treasury contingency funds, and which are coming from DEFRA's existing budget. And then it must agree a formula with Westminster for dividing the costs in Scotland on the sa

22

I'm no really here,

18/10/2007 07:54:14

Scottish Tax Payers money is goes to make up the Scottish Grant AND is being used from the Federal Government funds to give aid to English Farmers. Aid to Scottish Farmers will only come from the Scottish Grant (I detest that term).

So Scottish Tax Payers are giving aid to Scottish AND English Farmers, but English Tax Payers are only giving aid to English Farmers. Farming is NOT a devolved matter. The Scottish Government DID NOT issue restrictions. It is a Federal issue.

ANOTHER benefit of this b#st#rd union.

Lying English B@st@rds. Lets hope not just the Scottish Farmers, but the rest of the Scottish Voters remember this - it goes on the list Mini-Me, and you'll be reminded come the next election.

Come on Sir Ek, this has got to be raised at the Federal Parliament.

23

Toast,

18/10/2007 07:56:25

Just the latest example of labour short changing Scottish farmers,Davidson is a disgrace putting party before voters,no suprise here though,labour is more interseted in clinging on to power than doing the job it is very well paid to do,represent the people.

24

I'm no really here,

18/10/2007 08:03:45

Sorry, got heated up. The Scottish Government DID issue movement restrictions, but failure to do so would be an offence under the Animal Health Act 1981.

So the Scottish Government had not free choice. therefore in effect the restriction ban WAS NOT imposed by the Scottish Government, whose actions were only a automatic legal requirement.

25

dyon gollins's back,

at the fank 18/10/2007 08:08:26

The responsibilty for the outbreak is that of the uk government through its department for rural affairs and agriculture and the sponsoring of the purbright laboratory whose failures caused the problem. For this uk government to roll away from that responsibility is bad enough - though characteristic - but for this attitude to have the support of any Scottish member of the uk parliament is nothing short of shameful and it shows the latent anti-Scottish instincts of many of the elected representatives of the Scottish people at westminster.
This situation is not tolerable in a democracy and it is certainly overdue for change. The continuing ramshackle control and organisation of the english agricutural industries are killing the Scottish livestock farming industry at a time when, in any event, it is difficult enough to sustain the way of life in the Scottish Highlands. The potential economic as well as social consequnces of this are incalculable but at the very least it can be anticipated that it will lead to futher and widespread clearances from already fragile communities.
This is a key issue for Scotland and the future of the Scottish way of life and all Scottish politicians should be doing their utmost to support any measures which will help to alleviate the situation. Scotland must now implement Scotland suitable and specific policies on this and all matters of crucial importance to the country's well-being and if to do so means a further change in the governance of the country then let Scotland take that step also and as soon as possible.

26

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 08:11:35

#27 By that same logic, the UK government acted under a legal requirement too. Presumably you are not arguing that the movement bans in both jurisdictions were inappropriate? Therefore what is your point?

27

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 18/10/2007 08:14:33

Eh Duncan @24

Um, the direction came from DEFRA. Farming is not a devolved issue. I have a letter here from SERPID, with instruction not to move my animals with EU direction via DEFRA. SERPID was merely following orders. Want me to send it to you? You are not a farmer/crofter, are you?

You are very very incorrect I'm afraid. Very incorrect.

28

Fenland Farmer,

Cromwells Country 18/10/2007 08:17:00

Found out yesterday that Blue Tongue is now about three Farms away from mine. So, I wonder what will become of my Highlanders. Never mind, I will just have to sell the Merc . Foot and Mouth outbreak..what of it...a simple mistake in government lab..tut tut O well. Never mind, the rich Farmers of England,Wales, Scotland and NI all are paid to do nothing.
Food comes from supermarkets.Eastenders is on telly tonight.
Let the Farmers eat cake.

I smile. Our "leaders" huff and puff playing power games and on these boards you see "I have never met a poor Farmer".

Have ANY of them actually met a Farmer?

29

scully,

Colchester 18/10/2007 08:18:12

During the second world war. Unbeknowing to two Scottish farmers there Land was infected with ANTHAX It was a Goverment Experiment.The Farmes had to be abandoned, and to this day nothing can be grown there. The two Farmers received no compensation. what so ever.The Governments sculldugery is always covered up. Now you know why there are no Politics in the Kingdon of God. Politics and Religeon are the two most dangerouse factors in the world.. So I dont hold out much hope of the farmers being compensated for there misfortune. Goverments are the same all around the World.Unfortunatly we do need a form of Government with opposing governments.There needs to be leadership and organisation,but it is no good without Rules and discipline, and everything begines with self-respect and self-discipline and that can only come from yourself taught to you by your parents and dont say it cant be done, because it can, I did it, it was hard and you missed out on a lot of what you thought was fun at the time. but as you got older you realised you had missed nothing. and now I have reached the goal I strived for. and it is a wonderfull life.Nothing to come back and haunt me.

30

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 08:31:06

#30 Dave, SERPID is part of the Scottish Government! All government action to impose movement restrictions was a case of "following orders" because all government actions were subject to the laws of the land. I'm sorry but why, when you rightly point out that the EU imposed the export restrictions and the movement restrictions were imposed as a result of a 1981 UK Law, would you suggest that DEFRA was responsible but SERPID wasn't?

31

JimC,

18/10/2007 09:15:58

There is a pattern here on this subject, a week or so ago Alex Salmond was in Westminster and was to raise the matter of the missing 8M yet the speaker failed to call Scotland's First Minister, now we find that not one Scottish MP was called by the speaker. If Scottish MP's cannot represent their constituents in the English parliament, then it's time we withdrew to a full democratic and independent Scottish parliament where we can look after our own interests.

32

,

18/10/2007 09:17:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1065858, Article id was mapped to record!
33

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 09:22:18

#35 I thought you were meant to be dead by 8.45 you silly troll. Meths!

34

Duncan in Edinburgh `,

18/10/2007 09:25:12

#36 you still here, have you not learned anything. Stop trolling and starting arguments, for once give a view, stop this childish negatiove attitude.

35

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 09:32:16

#37 Trolling and starting arguments is exactly what you do, and have done in #35.

36

Shave,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 09:33:12

#35 & #37

You are a fraud and a fool.

Do you impersonate others because of your lack of personality? Do you do it because of your inability to form your own opinions? Have you ever had an original thought?

There are more brains in a can of corned beef than your skull.

37

,

18/10/2007 09:35:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1065896, Article id was mapped to record!
38

Boggle fey the Bog,

18/10/2007 09:36:18

#35 Duncin in Edinburgh,
Why don't you support farmers?, Don't you eat?
And what cr*p 'Labour would have no doubt paid out'
Hey dimbo it's Labour that IS NOT paying out!
I always thought 'Osters' were on a different planet, you have just confirmed that.

If Hilary Benn, whom I have considered an 'honest man' in the past, is now 'towing the Broon string', then hell scud it in tae him!!
There is one recourse, and that is to sue the English Government for damages, as it was an English Government Laboratory that the virus emanated from, following lax security procedures, so as they are the 'Owners and Employers', they have a liability under Law, common and legislative, therefore if they wish to be obdurate, then fcuk them where it hurts in the glare of a public trial, and in the pocket.

The 'Oster Mafia' control of the English parliament must stop, not only is it an insult to the Scottish people, they are also our enemies, why else would they not have called upon Scottish members to speak on the matter being debated, when it so patently effected ALL of New Labour/Owld Tories, much vaunted 'United Kingdom'.

It's gone past TIME!!!

Take to the streets now!

If you want Broonie oot, Honk yer Horn at noon on Friday 26 October for 10 secs

39

cabrach loon,

inverness 18/10/2007 09:37:54

Declare independence and finish with this, cease being a colony. One has to sue HBenn in person for an invalid decision. Westminster let the F&M out by inadequate funding so are liable for everything associated with F&M, including the food taken off ferry passengers at Rosyth!
Never let up and fight to the end.

40

Organic peasant,

N E Scotland 18/10/2007 09:43:45

DiE we do not have our snout in the through as you put it, I do not receive SFP as I started after it was allocated there is at present no RDP at all (due to the incompetence of the last administration) Subsidy? I wish I had some! Please get your facts straight before blaming the victims of this govt sponsored outbreak. The facts are clear DEFRA is responsible and liable, its failure to act is blatant discrimination.

41

Duncan in Edinburgh `,

18/10/2007 09:45:13

#41 Of course i eat- Does that mean i shoukld be ripped off by farmers?

These farmers claim money from barb wire, to hedges, to rain, they are conning you into thinking they are poor. The SNP will Con you on this fact even more. Labour had a ggod balance, soon the farmers wil be claiming they need money for oxygen.

42

I'm no really here,

18/10/2007 09:57:40

#29 surely you are not arguing that Scottish tax payers should subsidise Scottish and English Farmers, but English tax payers only subsidise English Farmers?

43

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 09:58:19

#41 and #43 if you look at the name against the deliberately inflammatory postings on this thread it is not the same as mine - someone has registered with my name plus a space and a ` character in order to undermine me. Needless to say I do support farmers, and I don't hold any of the views put forward by the idiot who has stolen my name.

44

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 09:59:19

#45 You're right, I'm not, and if you'd read what I have written you would know that.

45

Calum10,

18/10/2007 10:16:38

re: Alistair Carmichael, the Lib Dem spokesman for Scotland, who led the delegation, said: "This meeting confirmed my fears that DEFRA does not wish to compensate Scotland's farmers as they are legally and morally obliged to do."

Funny I never heard Mr Carmichael express such fears before the meeting. At every opportunity he expressed his anger at the SNP for picking fights with Westminster.

Alistair Carmichael you have been exposed as a fool. No wonder your own farming constituents have asked for your resignation.

46

Duncan in Edinburgh `,

18/10/2007 10:17:36

#47 Yes this is what you suggested as usual, This troll is changing his mind every 20 minutes, Ban Him.

47

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 18/10/2007 10:32:32

I listened to Radio Scotland yesterday driving down from Aberdeen and heard Ian Davidson repel borders for his labour party against his own countryman.

I don't think I have ever used the word treason but I am willing to use it now. The fact that he seems to think that he is in the right is even more amazing.

I was left opened mouthed at his explanation of why the responsibility is that of the Scottish Government.

The facts are CLEAR.

The responsibility is CLEAR.

DEFRA are responsible for animal welfare this is NOT A DEVOLVED matter.

Why was a document produced by DEFRA to highlight this problem with a sum of money and then it disappeared after GB changed his mind.

I have nothing but distaste for the Labour and Liberal parties approach to this problem blame the SNP for disclosure but not the folk in charge.

I shouldn't be supprised by their behaviour Scottish history is full of this treachery by Scots to Scots.

Duncan in Edinburgh how can you possible agree with the Labour government the facts are clear the responsibility is clear.

48

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 10:40:19

#50 I don't agree with the Labour government's handling of this at all.

They should not have given Salmond this opportunity to drive the wedge further. They should have been very clear about the capacity of the treasury to reimburse the Scottish government for compensation, and they should have dealt better with the SNFU by making this clear to them and also making it clear that the Scottish Government had to meet its responsibilities.

Instead they have handed Salmond an unnecessary win, alienated the farmers and made themselves look money-grabbing.

I just happen also to see the faults on the SNP side, as I have noted above. What galls me most of all is the complaints from Nationalists that Labour is playing politics with farmers' livelihoods - when the SNP is driving this political game, not the UK government.

49

Ctinj,

Alloa 18/10/2007 10:42:25

44# Your ignorance is astounding. Not only are you showing your complete ignorance but you are also showing what a little person you are.

Farmers don't claim money for barb wire, hedges, rain etc as you put it. Its simply not possible.

Farmers are in some cases eligible to claim EU subsiby (exactly as every other farmer in the EU can do). However, this is then subjected to a voluntary and non voluntary modulation (don't know whats non voluntary about it they don't get a say) which can amount to approx 22% being taken back off them for what ever the EU decides.

However what really annoys me is that idiots like you seem to think its only farmers that get subsidies. Bus companies, train companies, mining industries etc all recieve subsidies in one form or another, you are just too stupid to want to take them into account.

Also why shouldn't Scottish Farmers recieve compensation for something that was completely outwith their control. This problem arose through ineffeciencies at a government facility, and any restrictions imposed were imposed by government.

Labour has never done anything for farming, anything that was done forScottish Farming in recent years was by a Lib Dem (Ross Finnie), who like his counterpart Richard Lochhead is now having to deal with a bunch of imbaciles who do not understand and have no desire to understand farming.

Finally anyone who thinks that Scottish Farmers are rich obviously like to show their jealously of the fact that they live in the countryside, by having inconcielled swipes at them. But hey, if you fancy working 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year (yes farmers don't get christmas and new year off, livestock still has to be tended) for £8,000 a year, £10,000 if your rally lucky, then why don't you get off your a**e and go put yourself in hock up to your eyeballs by spending half a million buying a farm never mind stocking it or buying machine.

The only time a farmer is

50

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 10:49:52

#52 The person posting at #44 is just trying to stir up arguments and is best ignored. Unfortunately he has obtained a series of logins similar to mine to try to make me look rude and ignorant.

51

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 18/10/2007 10:57:11

Duncan get you head out of the way of your tonsills pal come on.

Again this is DEFRA's responsibility not the Scottish government. FACT

DEFRA are in charge of animal welfare they issued the animal movement control orders. FACT

The FMD outbreak occured from a government facility. FACT

Jings laddie the labour government are running away from their responsibilities. Westminster are not used to a strong devolved government standing up for themselves they don't like it I do and so do other Scots.

If the labour government are not playing politics then why don't they perform there responsibilities.

Remember the document with the 8.1m what happened there then? A misunderstanding of funding arrangements or GB soiling himself about the torries!!

52

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 11:04:09

#54 Putting "FACT" after something doesn't change anything! DEFRA did not issue the movement restrictions, the Scottish government did. And that is because the Scottish government is responsible for agriculture.

53

David MacVicar,

web 18/10/2007 11:07:34

51. Duncan in Edinburgh.

"I just happen also to see the faults on the SNP side"
Not really Duncan you have came out against the SNP from the start and kept at it despite the facts that emerged to the contrary.

Trust works both ways Duncan.

IMO the mjaority of Scots while accepting that the SNP did break non disclosure/trust that is simply peanuts compared to the gross broken trust/lies/u-turn/arrogance/ and sheer bloody mindedness from Labour.

IMO you are now clutching at straws for appearance and you avoid the fact that you were wrong. Your initial position was - its ok Labour would pay up the SNP is causing trouble. They aint paying Duncan, you were mistaken, at least admit it.

54

Celtic Lion,

Roar 18/10/2007 11:08:32

This certainly isn't a devolved issue as Scotland/England/Wales remain one epidemiological area. But I think it's only the teenage warriors here who believe it is, and Westminster don't seem to dispute it nor dispute that DEFRA is responsible for most compensation schemes, what's being disputed is whether compensation is required or not.

The concordat/agreement between MAFF (now DEFRA) and the Scottish Exec. says:
"SE [Scottish Executive] will retain responsibility for disease compensation payments made under the TB and brucella legislation. Compensation payments for other notifiable diseases will be made by MAFF (Animal Health Group) under procedures agreed between MAFF and SE as appropriate for the particular disease. To this end the Scotland Act 1998 (Concurrent Functions) Order 1999 has been made, giving MAFF the statutory authority to make such payments."

However, Hilary Benn say that DEFRA only have to pay compensation when compulsory slaughter is used to control spread of disease. Also, claims Benn, this year the problem hasn't been as bad as it was in 2001 (!).

Meanwhile Scottish Labour say (almost in a whisper) that they welcome the SNP government's decision to compensate farmers, but say it's not enough and the payment date needs to be brought forward.

The whole thing stinks and Labour are wriggling like they've never wriggled before.

55

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 11:12:55

#56 I still think the Treasury will pay up for the equivalent of what it is paying up for in England. I have never said they would pay up for whatever compensation package Salmond wants to put together.

Surely you can see the fairness in that idea - if DEFRA is paying in England then the Scottish Government should pay in Scotland, because Scotland's funding for agriculture is proportional to DEFRA's. If the Treasury contingency fund is going to reimburse DEFRA for anything then it should reimburse the Scottish Government for it too.

56

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 18/10/2007 11:28:36

Duncan they are FACTS choosing to ignore that doesn't change the fact that DEFRA are responsible for FMD restrictions in Scotland.

Your change your tune more times than an orchestra laddie!

I give up I really do I may as well run against a brick wall then try and get the some sense!

Who are responsible for the outbreak? Who are in control?

57

shazar,

scotland 18/10/2007 11:33:00

Now people might see that Westminster isnt and never was intrested in the scottish farmers or the scottish people except at voting time if westminster can get away with it they will put scottish farmer right out of buisness so that there English counter-parts can get more from the goverment coffers

58

Duncan in Edinburgh,

18/10/2007 11:38:51

#59 Tormod, the movement restrictions were imposed by the Scottish Government:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Agriculture/animal-welf...

I fail to see how you can dispute this.

59

The Second Coming,

glasgow 18/10/2007 11:41:57

#17 conservative:

To get to the real issue here why on earth do we keep having to bail these farmers out every time something goes wrong for them? Too little rain, too much rain, foot and mouth, hail and pestilence - farmers coin it in the good times and we pay for their mercedes in the bad times. I've been made redundant several times now but never a bail-out from the UK government. Whinging farmers!!

Clever disguise, Toryboy – this is slightly more subtle than the Scottish Toryboy is Back moniker you adopted after you were deleted for your uterly disgracefull behaviour, but its still fooling no-one! You tory’s should really keep in with the farmer’s! They may have kicked u out of perth, but galloway is you’re last hope! The farmers will be backing the SNP now they see what alex’s doing for them and I know that its time! Save the farmer’s and make them vote vote vote for independence! Get everyone on side! Dont let the farmers be shafted by Mr Ben! Its time!

60

Duncan in Edinburgh `,

18/10/2007 11:48:49

Also i spoke to a farmer down the road from me in Chichester who is also at his wits end and thinking of selling up, dont tell me Labour is all to blame for this, even the SNP's farce in Scotland affects England

61

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 18/10/2007 11:51:25

Duncan really and who issued the Scottish Government the edict to restrict movement GOD. The Edict came from DEFRA and was passed to the devolved administrations to implement.

Again you seem to disputing this fact I am right, your'e argument is that when the FMD outbreak in Surrey took place the SG decided on their own to implement the restrictions without any instruction from DEFRA on livestock movements??

So then the Scottish government by your logic and reason could have lifted the ban and allowed the export of the light lambs.

Oh they can't can they that has to be authorised by who Duncan? Why it's good old DEFRA.

Deluding yourself is not a good trait as Jack McConnell!

62

Mary of Argyll,

Bathgate 18/10/2007 11:54:18

Let's face it. The Scottish traitors in Westminster will use every dirty trick in the book to keep Scotland within English rule and do whatever they can to try and discredit the SNP while they are in power. Of course they are aided and abetted by their fellow traitors in the Scottish parliament. The time is fast approaching for that referendum, or if the traitors block that again - then let's hope for an early election.

63

scully,

Colchester 18/10/2007 11:56:06

Despite The Governments Killjoy Attitude and Cuts


THE VULCAN WILL TAKE TO THE SKY,s THIS AFTERNOON

When the people take over. Britain will be great again and then the Politicians can eat cake.And the farmers will supply the Corn.

By the way Farming is a hard job,Think of that when you are walking around all the Supermarkets this Christmas, and look at the Corn on the Cob and think how Jesus got told off for helping himself, But remember he took the corn from the corner of the field. which is allowed . ASK ANY FARMER

64

scully,

Colchester 18/10/2007 12:13:57

There was a time when you went into a store and asked for 1 lb of potato, you got all shapes and sizes. Now they are all measured ,they have to be round with no marks on them, not to many eye,s. so that they look nice on the supermarket shelf. You could say farmers are being made to become cosmetic farmers. Never mind the taste what! do they look like, I dont know about you but a mashed potato is a mashed potato.and once it is peeled you have no idea what colour the skine was was it Red was it Brown . But apart from a sweet potato they are all white under the skine That is why there is no race creed or colour with god. We are all just potaos. and dont forget. if the farmer got what the suopermarket got for that pound of potato,s he would be rich. you must really do your home work, Im talking from experience. How About You

65

Duncan in Edinburgh `,

18/10/2007 12:19:25

Stupid farmers.

66

Mad King Bambo,

18/10/2007 12:24:51

11th October: David MacVicar to DiE:

"...do you justify the UKs decision to compensate England Only for a UK wide incident?"

11th October: DiE to David McVicar:

"If DEFRA had made such a decision I would condemn it."

18th Octoberr: DiE:

"Surely you can see the fairness in that idea - if DEFRA is paying in England then the Scottish Government should pay in Scotland"

There's nae a beast on earth can lay hands on a greased Liberal...

67

GP,

18/10/2007 12:25:41

The farmers should take to the law and eu courts they will win.
When are the people of this country going to stand up be counted?
The french farmer would never accept this.
The unions should be making cross border agreements and european wide agreements that is the only way for workers to be protected.
Get off yer arses and be counted!

68

Meths™,

18/10/2007 12:27:37

Scottish decision?

The Scottish Executive (as was) said this in 2005...

"The Animal Health budget responsible for funding disease control strategy is held by Defra on a GB basis."...pretty clear no?

This bit I think puts it in a nutshell. Again from October 2005....capital letters at the bottom are mine.

"Compensation Policy Team

* To provide a link between SEERAD and Defra.
* Introduce appropriate secondary legislation (in conjunction with Legislation Team).
* Responsible for policy in Scotland relating to compensation.
* Liaison with valuers.
* Co-ordinate the administration of compensation claims in Scotland.

(DEFRA ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR COMPENSATION PAYMENTS, BUT POLICY LIAISON AND OVERSIGHT WILL BE REQUIRED).

In other words, according to this from 2005, Defra are responsible.

Read it on http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/10/17113441/...

69

Meths™,

18/10/2007 12:29:11

I'll keep repeating this from the Scottish "Government" in October 2005...you know...the last one!

DEFRA ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR COMPENSATION PAYMENTS, BUT POLICY LIAISON AND OVERSIGHT WILL BE REQUIRED.

70

Meths™,

18/10/2007 12:31:28

....more from 2005...

"The Animal Health budget responsible for funding disease control strategy is held by Defra on a GB basis."

71

Meths™,

18/10/2007 12:33:03

more from 2005...

"Procurement of goods and services required for administrative support (including accommodation, furniture, personnel and utilities) is the responsibility of the Scottish Executive."

Administrative support....furniture....personnel....

72

scully,

Colchester 18/10/2007 12:39:20

Mary of Argyll


You are too single minded , you cant see the forest for the trees.In the Military Forces there are all races creads and colours. according to you I would need to leave amy sons and grandchildren to leave England and come and live in Scotland. Unfortunatley I might get you as a next door neighbour.

I heard a quote by Abe Lincoln being repeated thre other day,.Abe is alledged to have said, I hate that man , I MUST GET TO KNOW HIM. And when you think of politicians, Think this Quote, EMPTY BARRELS MAKE THE MOST NOISE. all you are doing is giving your self an ulcer with all your wrath., Settle down and take a little wine for your stomach,s sake. was that not the good advice of Jesus. And jesus learned from a good Master.Cant you see how the Politicians are seperated us all, England ,Scotland Ireland Wales.as long as we allow that . THEY WIN> Untited we stand . devided we fall./I have lived in Colchester for 33 years and Im still standing.What you need is a lovely bouque of Bluebells, and Blue Roses.and some Lily of the Valley, And remember a quiet word turns away much wrath.If you can come up with one good reason for hating the English people, I will support you.I dont think you are refering to the english people as such . just English Politicians and Westminster, and even the English would agree with you there.

73

Meths™,

18/10/2007 12:41:57

36. Duncan in Edinburgh / 10:22am 18 Oct 2007

#35 "I thought you were meant to be dead by 8.45 you silly troll. Meths!"

Stronger spell required...am working on it. Why doesn't EVERYBODY report the posts? I'll start now.

74

Evan Owen,

Upper Gumtree 18/10/2007 12:43:42

Same story in Wales

So much for 'independence', there are so many disparities after such a short time that it makes people wonder why anyone voted for devolution. How many did actually vote? What do they think about it now? What will they think about it all in a few years time?

75

Mad King Bambo,

18/10/2007 12:44:19

#76 Meths:

"Administrative support....furniture....personnel...."

Not the real Duncan in Edinburgh:

Yes, but what you're failing to take into account is that because it was that personnel, using that furniture, who processed the orders to suspend all stock movements, therefore it is clear the the Scottish Government has responsibiltiy for paying compensation....etc etc continue ad nauseam..."

76

Meths™,

18/10/2007 12:47:44

BEGONE FAKE DUNCAN....BEGONE AH TELLS YE!

77

Meths™,

18/10/2007 12:49:11

--------//////-------
-------( Õ Õ)-------
--ooo0-(_)-0ooo---
----------------------
----------------------
----------------------
-----(__|-|__) -----

BEGONE FAKE DUNCAN!

78

,

18/10/2007 12:52:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1066718, Article id was mapped to record!
79

Meths™,

18/10/2007 13:35:26

A lot of posters appear to have begoned!

80

Duncan in Edinburgh™,

18/10/2007 13:39:13

I have been off on holiday in Skegnes and i come back to see my name plastered all over the Scotsman,

Duncan ' yes i do not like the SNP but your are taking this too far,,!

81

Mad King Bambo,

Roon at Flabskin's bit 18/10/2007 13:43:17

#84 Meths

Bit of a nuclear device, that begone spell.

I survived, but I'm on the other side of the world...

82

Meths™,

18/10/2007 13:46:24

85 Another fake Duncan adds his sublime "wit."

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

83

Meths™,

18/10/2007 13:47:43

86. Mad King Bambo, Roon at Flabskin's bit / 2:43pm 18 Oct 2007

#84 Meths

"Bit of a nuclear device, that begone spell.

I survived, but I'm on the other side of the world..."

I only spell for one hemisphere at a time. My powers are somewhat limited.

84

Mary of Argyll,

Bathgate 18/10/2007 13:50:05

Thanks to 68 - Bluepict. Encouraging to read your supporting comment.
Re: 77 - Scully.
Oh Scully - I'm sorry you think I'm a racist - I'm only a nationalist and there is a vast difference between. I have many good friends and family in England, Ireland and Wales. The point I'm trying to get over is that Scotland voted in an SNP Government which is trying hard to run our country - nay Nation - justly and effectively,resolving the various damaging disasters inflicted on it by previous ineffectual Labour government. Independence in Scotland is a MUST, but this shouldn't be regarded as any kind of threat to goodwill between the inhabitants of the island called Britain. The traitors I'm referring to are those Scottish political careerists who have put their own ambition to hold office in Westminster before the interests of the Scottish people.
Incidentally - a comment on English - brush yours up - your spelling is could do with it!

85

Duncan in Edinburgh™,

18/10/2007 13:53:07

#89 While i totally disagree with you on this occasion i will not add a negative comment, other than my previous sentence.

86

Mad King Bambo,

Roon at Flabskin's bit 18/10/2007 14:10:15

#88 Meths

"I only spell for one hemisphere at a time. My powers are somewhat limited."

Well I don't think there are any fake Duncans in this hemisphere, but I've got my deflectors enabled if you want to give it a blast.

87

,

18/10/2007 14:46:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
88

thomas,

midlothian 18/10/2007 15:12:12

smarten up farmers,the first and constant care of government is the health, safety and welfare of it's citizens. if broon the goon persists then charge the bum with treason. off with his head!

89

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 18/10/2007 15:21:16

Independance here we come.
Only a fool would vote labour in the next election.
They don't even hide the fact that they dont care for Scotland anymore. I say sack the lot of them right now...

90

scully,

Colchester 18/10/2007 15:52:03

Mary of Argyll

I know Bathgate very well. It was a great place untill they closed all the pits down.When I was a school girl it was a very busy market town ,Do you remember the Bakery on the Corner opposite the Cinema. or the pictures as we called it. my family still live around there. I used to come home every year.Is Boghall still as hilly. I loved shopping in Edinburgh. Its still a great place to be. when I come home I shop at Tescos. I used to wander the Bathgate hills.Lovely childhood memories.Sorry about my spelling I was attacked by Terrorist and received a bad head injury, But Im getting there

My spelling suffered but not my Moral or Spiritual standards.Check your own spelling.

91

Bob Fae Fife,

New Mexico / USA 18/10/2007 15:52:56

#17 & #18

WHAT C**P!!!
My father was a dairy farmer in Fife until last year when he had to sell up. I made more money a week as a first year apprentice than he afforded himself a wage. If he produced more milk than the quotas issued by the government allowed he had to pour it down the drain or face a fine. On top of that he had to comply with any whim our friends in the European parliament came up with and paid it all out of his own pocket.
These people who work 16 hour days every day feed this country and we shouldn't forget it. Unless you want to watch your families go hungry.

92

scully,

Colchester 18/10/2007 16:01:25

Two things Mary of Argyll

Alex Saldmon was once before at the top of the political tree. and sold out to Prince Charles after a weekend at Balmoral. Finny. He let the scots down, it is always ill add vised to swap horses in mid-stream.

The other one thing is the Highlanders and the Black Watch'Interesting to find out there History.

My Grandfather was a Highlander. and Talked from experience

93

grond,

18/10/2007 16:57:11

"Hilary Benn, the Environment Secretary, was heckled by opposition MPs when he said there was "not a shred of truth in the allegation" that £8 million had been offered, then withdrawn, to Scots farmers"

if the S.N.P have any evidence to contradict Mr Benn they should produce it. Then he having lied to the house of commons will have no option than resigning from office.

Come on S.N.P back up your claims and you will have Mr Benn's scalp unless you are lying Which will it be

94

WatchKeeper,

South Norfolk England. 18/10/2007 17:33:05

I have put England because I want to make sure that you in Scotland, who might have put your faith in Politics and Politicians, or the SNP. now understand the situation that has overtaken most of Europe. Farming across the Continent is in the same state, dire.
Before many more months are past, there is going to be a some sort of Famine in Europe. Here in the Eastern Counties, there used to be 2000 Dairy Farms. Today there are less than 200. and none of them make any profit on Milk.
Calve and stores, are hardly worth the trouble and as things stand, Farming has NO future. But that is all in the cause of Globalization. Just think, the TaxPayer will now be held to ransom by whoever has Food to sell. The trouble is, China, India and Africa, can't even feed their own population. South America?? Much of the supply from there is just rubbish, but that looks like our future.
The only way you can control the elected Politician, is to remove their power to levy Taxation. What I propose is quite simple and perfectly LEGAL.
It is posted on BBC, Actionnetwork and I have referred to it in the Express Website. Have a look.
Regards ATFlynn.

95

Enster Buddy,

18/10/2007 19:44:50

More Highland clearances so well heeled english (deliberate lower case!) can go grouse & deer shooting over Scottish land? These expense swindling, lying torags would not recognise truth or honesty if it bit them! As for Gordon Brown, are we surprised at how low he can stoop? It was very obvious what a turd he was before the last election!
roll on the next election!

96

Huttcity,

18/10/2007 21:47:17

@ 100 watchkeeper
The lack of profit from milk has more to do with the failure to bring to account supermarket cartels rather than taxes. If fair trading was supported by government most farmers would benefit, supermarket profits would be less, but I feel that may be no bad thing.

Anyway back on topic, Labour have been outflanked once again, If they pay up SNP will get the credit now, if they don't pay the SNP rides to the rescue. For the SNP it's win - win.


 

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