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Trams chief says sorry for city centre gridlock



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Published Date: 02 October 2008
TRAM chiefs have apologised for the "disastrous" diversions which brought the city centre to a standstill, as they prepare to go back to the drawing board to keep Edinburgh moving.
The first day of diversions around Princes Street caused gridlock yesterday as work to move utilities under The Mound junction saw traffic banned between Frederick Street and Hanover Street.

Drivers and bus passengers faced delays of up to an hour as the diversions, coupled with a number of traffic light failures, resulted in chaos.

Now, following crisis talks between the city council, tram firm TIE and Lothian Buses, buses were due to be allowed back on to Princes Street westbound from this morning.

Other emergency changes include additional signs to help drivers understand the new arrangements, more traffic wardens on duty at rush hour, additional road markings and new unloading and waiting restrictions to be placed on both sides of George Street between Frederick Street and Hanover Street.

A further meeting between police, council, bus and TIE representatives will take place this afternoon to address any further difficulties experienced by motorists during this morning's rush hour.

Police Sergeant Caroline McKay said: "The plans are pretty fluid at the moment – if they are not working they will be tweaked." She added that some drivers were not paying attention to the new diversions this morning .

The Evening News understands that buses may be allowed back eastbound if the same level of disruption continues today.

Driving groups and opposition politicians today demanded the mess was sorted out immediately, especially given the works are meant to last until April.

Willie Gallagher, executive chairman of TIE, said: "I would like to apologise for the delays to both bus passengers and drivers today as a result of the introduction of the temporary traffic management measures to undertake the utility works around The Mound.

"Despite careful modelling and planning, it was clear by the morning rush hour that the temporary traffic measures were not fully working.

"We would ask all bus passengers and drivers to allow a bit more time in making their normal journeys, and we will continue to monitor the improvements and changes over the next few days."

It is unclear why The Mound works were started in the middle of the week when previous major tram works, including Shandwick Place and Haymarket, were given "soft" launches at weekends to allow for any teething problems to be ironed out.

Pedestrians trying to get across George Street were left with no crossings after traffic lights put in to replace the zebra crossings failed, but these lights are expected to be working by early evening today.

Colin Barclay, 40, a Big Issue seller whose pitch is on the corner of George Street and Hanover Street said there had been a number of near misses.

He said: "I am astounded that nobody has been hurt yet on these crossings. It is just an accident waiting to happen and has been for weeks.

"People are using them like they still think they are zebra crossings, and there have been a few people getting abuse from van drivers for walking in front of them."

The congestion problems around the city centre have been exacerbated by ongoing tram works at Haymarket, as well as the closure of Canongate for resurfacing work.

Bruce Young, Lothian and Borders co-ordinator of the Association of British Drivers, said: "It is unacceptable that they can't get this sort of thing right from the start.

"But I believe that the long-term intention was to close The Mound to all traffic, so this is perhaps a sign of things to come.

"We are going to see them try and force people on to public transport by re-engineering the roads, so this is only the start of a deliberate policy to try and force a change in behaviour."

And politicians also rounded on tram bosses.

SNP Lothians MSP Shirley-Anne Somerville said today: "I am very disappointed that, just like on Leith Walk, TIE has not been able to make a good job of tram works on our city's main shopping street. The first day has proven to be completely disastrous for TIE and they will really need to work fast to sort this mess out as this is just not acceptable."

Councillor Andrew Burns, the city's Labour leader, said: "I know that some problems are to be expected, but the scale of what happened yesterday morning strongly suggests to me that the changes just have not been explained, publicised or communicated effectively."

Bus services passing through the busy Mound junction are currently being diverted via George Street or Market Street and Waverley Bridge. General traffic is being redirected via Market Street, Waverley Bridge, St David Street and then George Street or Queen Street.

The diversions will last until December, when the Christmas roadworks embargo starts, but will return in January when the rest of Princes Street closes to traffic for six months for tram track laying work.

Iain Coupar, marketing director for Lothian Buses, said: "We experienced delays of up to an hour on some services. The traffic lights sequence was not working well, and we had to cope with the sheer volume of traffic being funnelled on to George Street.

"On Princes Street it is buses only, but on George Street there are cars and lorries as well. So while the delays have been unacceptable, it is the first day, so hopefully we can a see a speedy resolution to this."

Utilities work on Walk to last until Christmas
WORK to move underground pipes on a busy stretch of Leith Walk for the city's tram project will last until Christmas.

The utilities diversion project at the bottom of Leith Walk was expected to be completed by June, then September, but tram bosses have today admitted the work has overrun again.

Manderston Street will be reopened within the next two weeks but other holes on Leith Walk between Stead's Place and Kirk Street will remain until December.

And the news comes as traders and residents face the start of preparation work to lay the tram tracks.

It is understood that problems with telecoms and gas sub-contractors are partly to blame for the hold-ups, but tram firm TIE today put the delay down to "operational challenges".

Traders today hit out at the level of disruption and poor information from TIE.

The overall programme for the tram line has not been affected by the latest delays.

Alan Rudland, vice-chairman of the Leith Walk and Constitution Street Traders Association, said: "It is crazy. I just don't see how they can possibly integrate both works in such a tight space – the logistics just don't add up.

"I am not surprised about the delays, though. The biggest problem for us and our members is that we are trying to keep people informed about these chances and the goalposts keep moving."

A spokesman for TIE said: "The utilities work continues to be on programme. In Leith Walk, TIE and Carillion have deployed additional resources and increased working hours to address the technical issues, and the operational challenges that continue to arise given the complexity of Leith Walk utilities.

"TIE appreciates the patience and co-operation of Leith Walk traders and residents during this period."

The full article contains 1224 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Statsman,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 11:30:11
As usual, utter incompetence by TIE and the only people that pay the price are the citizens and businesses. TIE carry on as usual.
2

,

02/10/2008 11:37:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 11:40:12
Andrew Burns has got some nerve commenting on this nightmare scheme he had a hand in creating, but at least that's better than the shameful silence coming from the other 'Save Our Tram' parties.

Iain Whyte, Jenny Dawe, Margo Macdonald, are you there?

TIE have had months to plan this, and yet emergency measures have to be brought in within hours. Thank goodness Edinburgh's Transport leader is on their board, otherwise they might have to be worried about being held 'accountable'.

Picardy Place still to come, folks!
4

allknowing,

02/10/2008 11:41:12
"have not been explained, publicised or communicated effectively.""

So nothing new here then.

5

Big bob 79,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 11:45:47
Transport in the city centre is a disater, but where else do people think all these buses can go?
The only solution I can see is if the volume of buses using this diversion can be cut back, perhapse by reducing frequencies on some routes?
I fear these ever growing delays will drive more and more people away from public transport.....

6

john3,

02/10/2008 11:50:35
#5 idiotic.
7

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 11:53:59
The EEN campaigned against the congestion charge and the Traffic Management Scheme. It's time for them to swallow their pride, admit they were wrong and mount a campaign against these trams now. It can still be stopped - they can call a referendum if they want.

The Government will be glad to have the money to divert to other projects - Edinburgh can call for a big lump sum too. Get started on the light rail scheme Edinburgh and the surrounding area needs - the hovercraft too.

The lie that 'it will all be worth it in the end' is just that. Any councillors fancy making a name for themselves and taking a stand on this one? Kate MacKenzie can't be the only sensible one amongst you surely?
8

Big bob 79,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 11:55:59
#6 very constructive,
Just pointed out that its very common place to see two sometimes three buses back to back all on the same route sitting in the same jam, receducing the frequency may then easy the traffic wow's, LB have already been allow route managers turn most buses early to try and get them back on time, can this not be extended?
9

,

02/10/2008 12:00:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 12:02:40
#5 Instead of cutting back on buses, which so many folk rely on, why don't the selfish, obnoxious car drivers stop coming into the city centre? Reducing cars will reduce congestion!!
11

allknowing,

02/10/2008 12:06:33
5/7/9 totally agree.

Biggest farce to ever hit edinburgh. If they want mass takeup of public transport, then they need to start from scratch.
1/Re organise all routes, so we have routes north to south, east to west and orbital in both directions. Not all buses need to go via princes st.
2/With money saved from trams, replace every single bus with new, low emmision vechiles, with all mod cons etc.
3/Transferable day tickets, for all buses, on all routes, and also trains etc.
4/Return the roads to ALL users, un block and undo all the crazy restrictions placed on all of us over the last 15 years.
5/Make it cheap, very cheap, but also reliable.

Do the above, and many problems will be solved. Trams will do nothing but get in the way and breakdown.
12

LUVMACITY,

IN THE LOBBY 02/10/2008 12:08:02
Would it not be sensible to allow traffic from Hanover Street to cross Princes Street on to Speakers Corner, around the rear of the Royal Scottish Academy & up the Mound thus avoiding the roadworks completely?
13

allknowing,

02/10/2008 12:08:33
#10

We car drivers have stopped coming into the city centre, and whats happened. Princes St is a dump becuase no-one visits there. It is a very sad state, espcially compared to 10 years ago!!

Cars dont create congestion. Remind me how free the traffic flows when buses are on strike, and the greenways are lifted. Its total bliss.
14

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 12:08:43
#10 its been a few years since we let cars on Princess Street and after we got ride of them look how clogged it is with even more buses!....
East bound queues on Princess Street are bus only so getting rid of cars will in NO way reduce the wait...
15

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 12:08:45
#10 its been a few years since we let cars on Princess Street and after we got ride of them look how clogged it is with even more buses!....
East bound queues on Princess Street are bus only so getting rid of cars will in NO way reduce the wait...
16

Top Floor,

02/10/2008 12:12:04


No comment from the Council's Chair of Transport Cllr Phil Wheeler ... Why not ?
17

Top Floor,

02/10/2008 12:12:56
#7 Howard, you are barking if you think a referendum can still be called for trams.
18

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 12:13:10
#13/14 Answer me this question - you state cars don't create congestion, buses do. Now at rush hour take a look at the by-pass - it is like a car park. Now there are no bus routes on the by-pass - so who creates this congestion?
19

James (1),

02/10/2008 12:14:30
Sorry but was this not planned? The tram line was not just forced onto us. We wanted it. They meticulously planned for the least disruption and that is what we got.
Can you imagine if this had not been planned?
We would have had chaos! What? What do you mean we did have chaos?
Have they been lying to us? Is it that the majority of people don't want the tram line?
I cannot believe this!
Once more the minority get their way and the tail wags the dog.
20

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

02/10/2008 12:15:14
Bad planning, no more. Communication is needed, between all parties and the local press.

Hopefully they have learned a lesson.
21

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

02/10/2008 12:15:55
18 Tony, that was lucid man.
22

James (1),

02/10/2008 12:16:21
#14+ 15 It is Princes Street. (a single male prince not a female princess).
23

allknowing,

02/10/2008 12:21:08
#18 i'll answer you, but i am still waiting for my answer.

The city bypass gets congested in two main locations.
1/Sherrifhall roundabout, due to bad planning and lack of foresight, plus the introduction of traffic lights, this is whats causes congestion here. Want proof, several weeks back, throughout the roadworks, the lights went down for 3-4 days, result, dramatic reduction in queues and congestion.
2/ Traffic heading west gets congested when hitting the gogarburn roundabout. Again, exact same problems. Too many roads trying to converge onto one small roundabout. Coupled with bad light timings, this is what causes tailbacks.

So, you tell me, with NO cars on Prnces St, why is it like a bus park every morning and pm? Why when the buses are on strike, congestion drops right down to almost nothing. Still the same number of cars, in fact probally more, but no congestion.

Congestion is caused by obstructions, be it road works, stopped buses, greenways, crazy council restrictions and the like.
24

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

02/10/2008 12:21:12
11 You are entirely correct that tickets should be transferable. GO where you like within an hour for the price of your ticket.

Here (NL) we can , and most of Western Europe also. Unfortunately its about 2 quid a pop so not much less than your edinburgh dayfare. The dayfare is a bargain though.
25

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 12:21:26
#18 so I struggle with the bus I nev use the bypass at rush hour, however I can comment on bus congestion waverly steps rush hour....
Dozens of buses trying to use two stops, the buses not only block each other in but block the road due to the lenght of the buses this causes tottaly grid lock at the Eastend and this is without any roadworks, this is simple too many buses trying to use the same space..

26

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

02/10/2008 12:22:08
23 The tram will remove a lot of the duplicitious buses.
27

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 12:23:32
#17

Why not? It wouldn't be binding, but if they really needed a mandate (I don't think they do, but they might think so) that would give them it. We'll lose millions by cancelling the trams now, with only some new pipes to show for it, but at least we won't have a tram station at Picardy Place, narrower pavements on Princes Street, and one lane each way on Leith Walk!

#11

Agreed. There are so many options when it comes to improving Edinburgh's transport infrastructure. What a shame the council/government only ever seriously considered a fatally flawed one.
28

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 12:25:12
#26

Hardly. A service still needs to be offered to the 90%+ of people who don't live on the tram line. Do you think all the buses will just shuttle people from those areas to the line and then turn round? There will be a few less buses fighting for a lot less space.
29

,

02/10/2008 12:25:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
30

Grumpy,

02/10/2008 12:28:18
The congestion was entirely predictable. Buses had Princes St al to themselves, george St was already congested with cars. And Queen St was in turmoil because of the roadworks on Picardy PLace.

Answer: (1) - Fix Picardy Place (2) ban cars from George St and make that the new Princes St - i.e. buses only. (3) Close Princes St and turn it into a funfair. Ooops - sorry, forgot it already was one.
31

Way Out West,

02/10/2008 12:29:23
This is all part of a long-term plan, to screw up as many bus services as possible during the tram construction period.

Result - reliability suffers, passenger numbers drop, routes get cut.

By the time the trams start in 2011, there will be no need to axe nineteen services - it will have already been done.
32

,

02/10/2008 12:30:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 12:30:19
#29

I think your comment goes a long way to explaining why. You have no idea if what you are suggesting is true so I suggest you give it a rest. People will be grieving over this.
34

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

02/10/2008 12:30:22
if its done properly howard. If the tram runs along princes street (which it will) you could argue that there are no need for buses at all along princes street.

People would have to get used to changing over to the tram.

You can say what you like about edinburghs transport but i dont believe they are stupid enough not to reduce bus services along princes street once the tram is in.
35

Way Out West,

02/10/2008 12:31:36
25 - who would run a bus down the bypass anyway? That route is for cars not buses.
36

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

02/10/2008 12:31:43
Anyway. Only another 300 stories like this to come until the service is up and running.

Im tired of it already.
37

Way Out West,

02/10/2008 12:33:02
34

"People would have to get used to changing over to the tram."

Yes and people will have to get used to routes being cut left, right and centre in the run-up to the trams opening.
38

Some guy,

02/10/2008 12:33:25
For once i agree with some of allknowings comments. A re-organisation of the bus routes and a complete rethink on the location and number of bus stops is required. I know it's been said loads of times before but look at buchanan street in glasgow.

1. Create a large underground car park at one end of princes street (e.g. Buchanan Galleries) and re-arrange the routes to give priority to traffic going there keeping the car users happy.
2. Either pedestrianise princes street or re-route some bus routes to George Street at the same as giving the buses 2 stops they can stop at along the length of the street instead of the daft 10-20 seconds between each stop as it is now.
3. Get approval for the RIE spur of the Tram and have this link up with the two new main bus stops at either end of Princes St/George St. and you then have Tram access from North, South and West. Buses from other areas of the City and a main route into a large car park for the out of towners.
39

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 12:34:16
#34

I agree they will to some extent. All the 22s will be gone for a start. But enough to make for a net reduction in buses factoring in the loss of bus lanes and overall road space? No chance.
40

Incandescent,

02/10/2008 12:38:25
#10 G-tone & #29 Jenny

Welcome back you two. Interesting that, yet again, you were both absent over the same period. Were you perhaps on a short break together? Or, more likely, you are one and the same? Oops...BUSTED!
41

malcyh,

edinburgh 02/10/2008 12:39:56
To help ease congestion at the East End in rush hour, perhaps the Police could enforce the parking regulations outside the Balmoral Hotel and the double parking that also happens?
42

Disgruntled Black cab customer,

02/10/2008 12:41:46
TRAMS the biggest talking point since time began.

The vast majority against them, however no-one seems to want to do anything to stop them.
43

malcyh,

02/10/2008 12:42:54
G29 The Police report the traffic light was at green and the pedestrian then set off to cross the street. I agrre it still is a tradgedy.
44

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 02/10/2008 12:47:02
Given that only 550 buses enter the city centre each morning peak hour (carrying 20,000 passengers) compared to 20,000 cars (carrying 22,000 people), it is not rocket science to work out who are the REAL congestion causers.
But then the motorist blames EVERYONE/THING but themselves !
45

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 12:47:53
# 28 where have you been the last 3 years? 19 routes to go some of them becoming "tram feader services" NOTHING will be allowed to run along side the route of the trams to ensure people use them, come 2012 many journeys that cross PRINCES STREET will become Bus Tram Bus this way the GOV can gaurentee people use the tram, after all TIE stated 80% of expected tram users will come from exitsing services
46

Incandescent,

02/10/2008 12:51:47
#44 Impressive, if made-up, figures.
47

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

02/10/2008 12:54:52
45 which is exactly the way it should be. once it is in youll be asking for more of them. Its a transition, one that should never have been required.

Just a pity you have to live through it, and i do sympathise.
48

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 12:56:02
44# you can half the 20,000 passengers carried right away as in the council survery they count "journeys made" not "people carried" and most people have to use more than one bus to get to their destination, so really far less people are using the bus. The council gloss over this fact hoping that no one spots these inflated figures, the real figures of actual people using the bus is much lower.

49

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 12:56:10
#45

I agree with most of that. I will believe the final TIE concoction when I see it, however.

Where have I been? I have been here the whole time, moaning about the trams (but not doing anything about it of course).
50

Bob 2,

02/10/2008 13:01:07
Now, following crisis talks between the city council, tram firm TIE and Lothian Buses, buses were due to be allowed back on to Princes Street westbound from this morning.


and FIRST ?
51

Bob 2,

02/10/2008 13:02:52
15 Big bob 79,02/10/2008 12:08:45
#10 its been a few years since we let cars on Princess Street and after we got ride of them look how clogged it is with even more buses!....
East bound queues on Princess Street are bus only so getting rid of cars will in NO way reduce the wait...

comment 15 Big bob 79 where is Princess Street?
52

jambali,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:03:47
Glasgow bans all roadworks from the central area for xmas & the new year - forward thinking/planning from a cooncil - it'll never catch on!

Seriously though - Edinburgh has gone beyond incompetance, it's now at the stage where peoples civil liberties are being deliberately infringed for political reasons, not expediency. Someone should take legal action!
53

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

02/10/2008 13:04:18
#18 - in answer to your question, buses & taxis create the congestion on the bypass because vehicles are forced to use this as they are not allowed to travel freely in the city. I thought this point would have been glaringly obvious to even a half wit, but apparently you need it spelled out.
54

Hmm ...,

02/10/2008 13:05:46
... Road raga (44) said cars were responsible for congestion. So just how is that compatible with bus strikes, when as Allknowing (13) reminded us, when there are no buses, Greenways are cancelled and car traffic increases, traffic flows freely?

I think we can blame David Begg and his imitators for Edinburgh's present congestion.
55

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 02/10/2008 13:05:55
Cars are to blame for the mess yesterday . Tram chiefs should withdraw their apology .
56

Incandescent,

02/10/2008 13:09:10
#53

G-Tone's persona is actually only a quarter-wit. However, when combined with his other persona, Jenny, he becomes a half-wit. If he were to join forces with HArrington and Raga, he may someday become whole. But I doubt it.
57

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 13:09:21
#55

LOL! Good windup.
58

Hmm ...,

02/10/2008 13:13:44
... sorry, Voice (55) - only a relatively few cars were caught up in the jams - they have the advantage of being able to re-route in such conditions. Buses are committed to their route - just think how trams will cope with such emergencies - they can't even come off their rails!

Let's remember the reason that there are trams in the first place was that the rails made it easier for the horses to pull heavier loads on the "buses" they pulled. Cables then electricity replaced the horses but the rails remained.
59

scotsol,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:16:41
I love seeing car drivers thoroughly inconvenienced, and I hope to see more of it in the future when congetion charging is introduced. High time we banned cars altogether in the city centre. Then the buses and taxis wouldn't be greatly inconvenienced by these minor and temporary road closures.
60

Padraig,

02/10/2008 13:22:38
Gorgie (10) said "Instead of cutting back on buses, which so many folk rely on, why don't the selfish, obnoxious car drivers stop coming into the city centre? Reducing cars will reduce congestion!!"

Car drivers, whether or not obnoxious, HAVE stopped coming into the city centre - they have choice of where to go! Not a lot of cars stuck in this bus-jam!

That's why the shops' trade was suffering even before the present recession.

And strange isn't it that the more Edinburgh discouraged cars, the busier the City Bypass became! Never was a route better named!
61

MrCalm,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:25:49
Come on - please get things under perspective. Yes it has been chaos and yes planning could and should have been better but what alternatives are there? Edinburgh city has always been concentrated on Princes Street and its supporting roadways. For any major development you have to put up with the pain (although hopefully not that of the extent felt yesterday). Edinburgh planners should have resolved our public transport needs in the 80s and 90s when other big cities took the plunge.
62

NYC Hibee,

edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:25:51
its buses pulling out onto junctions with no means of exit that cause a lot of hold ups. Is there a law that allows them to sit on boxed junctions?
Traffic a nightmare yesterday. Think I'll buy a permit and leave my car at home - only the council wants to charge extra for my car sitting there oh, and the buses are running an hour late! Wonderful!
63

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 13:27:36
Ooops

Great news 26 users

East Lothian Council is joining in , with guess what Road Works.

Yes at the tranent end of the 26 route, ELC is going ahead with road resurfacing in tranent, with temporary traffic lights.

Even better, if true, nothing on the Edinburgh City Council Website:-

Supposedly to allow the removal of the Portobello/ Seafield roundabout, Part of the junction will be closed off, with traffic diverted via the Industrial estate

Things can't get any better can they ?

26 Users get your sleeping bags out.

Has anyone else heard this story?
64

fresian,

edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:27:45
#44, the cars are not attempting to stop every 50 yards or so, nor do they generally stop in the main traffic line.
65

WackAttack,

Leith 02/10/2008 13:27:47
It's shambles... Plus all the number 25 buses seem to have disappeared from the bottom of Leith Walk this week.

Are they taking a different route?
66

SS,

02/10/2008 13:28:09
Edinburgh city centre will be like a ghost town this Chrstmas - with the credit crunch, fuel bills and all that jazz. This congestion will make it so so so much worse and even fewer people will make the trip in. probably be job losses, closures etc. etc. If Loyds axes lots of HBOS jobs it'll be even worse. Edinburgh is in for a rough ride for the next 12 months
67

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 13:28:26
#59

'Minor and temporary'

Do you work for TIE, or is this Iain Whyte finally ending his self-imposed silence on the subject?
68

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 13:30:51
#60 following on to your comments, off subject but as you may know Sheifhall has been altered with extra lanes added, watch this space as I have been told we may see some BUS LANES added to it!...

So not even the Bypass is safe!
69

Tomsk,

02/10/2008 13:32:28
#59

Like all puritans, the only joy you get from life is the joy you feel at other people's suffering.
70

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 13:32:28
25 Big bob 79,02/10/2008 12:21:26
#18 so I struggle with the bus I nev use the bypass at rush hour, however I can comment on bus congestion waverly steps rush hour....

Please note a lot of the congestion at Waverley Steps is caused by Cars PARKED permanently on the Yellow Lines at the Balmoral (or what ever its called now).

Never seen a Traffic Warden yet.

But if your parked on a side street, causing no congestion, your ticketed.!!!
71

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 13:36:55
53 The Geniune Mario Antionette,02/10/2008 13:04:18
#18 - in answer to your question, buses & taxis create the congestion on the bypass because vehicles are forced to use this as they are not allowed to travel freely in the city. I thought this point would have been glaringly obvious to even a half wit, but apparently you need it spelled out

Now why is it called the BYPASS, so people can BYPASS the city.

Imagine if the bypass was not there, Edinburgh City streets could not cope with this volume of cars (with or without bus lanes)

Its the sheer volume of cars on the bypass that cause the congestion.

Which isn't helped when SLOW MOVING tractors are allowed to trundle along at 10 mph, causing havoc!!!
72

Casey Beer,

02/10/2008 13:38:23
#22 James (1) -a single male prince not a female princess.

It is plural male prince, not single as that would be Prince Street.
73

Casey Beer,

02/10/2008 13:38:30
#22 James (1) -a single male prince not a female princess.

It is plural male prince, not single as that would be Prince Street.
74

Heather B,

Anstruther 02/10/2008 13:38:40
Would bring a tear to a glass eye.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJdoJKHyho
75

Casey Beer,

02/10/2008 13:38:49
#72/73. So good, I said it twice. Sorry.
76

Son of Gramsci,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:41:08
Ride a bike, be happy.

77

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 13:43:42
#70 please take time to watch what happens, its got nothing to do with the cars at the hotel. Its simple too many buses and not enough space, the stops are so close and so heavily server that the buses loading and waiting to pull into the first stop block the buses pulling away from the second, this causes the delay. So much so that a driver from a 3 got out his cab and battered the door of an X48 to give the fellow driver some choice words.

78

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 13:46:27
#76

Until they remove the cycle lanes to make way for the good old trams, eh?
79

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 13:52:15
77 Big Bob 79

yip the stops are too close,

But have walked past many a lunch time.

With Cars parked right along the Front of the Hotel to Waverley Step.

Result Buses going west end up sitting in the outside lane blocking other buses from getting to the next stop and beyond

Its a bit of both me thinks

But take the cars away from the Hotel and you'll find that most of the problems would be solved.
80

The Judge,

02/10/2008 13:56:49
5 years to go!

I've been predicting this for months now, I even pointed out as late as Friday that 2 buses cannot pass each other on Market St.

How much are we paying people like Willie Gallagher?

If he had any decency he'd tender his resignation today, because it's becoming very clear he is NOT up to the job.

As someone has already posted, where is The EEN's pet councillor Mr Wheeler? Nothing to say or too embarrassed to say anything at all?

Councillor Andrew Burns, the city's Labour leader, said: "I know that some problems are to be expected, but the scale of what happened yesterday morning strongly suggests to me that the changes just have not been explained, publicised or communicated effectively."

You voted for it Andrew, I can't see how you can complain now, you and the rest of New Labour Scotland forced the tramLINE on us nobody else.
81

MasterXX,

02/10/2008 14:00:38
It is terrible what is happening to our city centre, why cant they just concentrate on one area at a time instead of causing gridlock through the entire city, in a word, pathetic!
82

Foo,

02/10/2008 14:03:37
The problem isn't the tram works, it's the multitude of other road works that are being carried out around the city that's the main problem.

Most communters don't drive to the city centre, most use the routes in and around the suburbs. All of which have major road works on them.

The road network in Edinburgh is a sham. I took 45 mins today to drive 4 miles, and I'm nowhere near the tram routes.

The utilty companies have been getting away with murder as the tram companies take all the flack.

Forget the trams, ESW and SP/SG need to pay for the damage they have done to Edinburgh.
83

Foo,

02/10/2008 14:04:10
ESW = East of Scotland Water, which I've just realised is now Scottish water.
84

Cod,

Leith 02/10/2008 14:05:06
Walk!! Walk!! Walk!! You'll all be very fit in 3 years time :-) As fit as the Polsih girls are now...
85

Foo,

02/10/2008 14:07:35
#71 Speaking of half wits, why didn't you realise that a bypass is just that, you bypass the city. Meaning you don't need to be in the city, you are travelling around it. Not being forced on to it.

Prat
86

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 14:07:53
Foo its quicker by push bike

11 miles in under 45mins, quicker than the bus and the car.

Roadworks do happen , buses normally cope, but almost every road in edinburgh is being dug up at the moment

Worst one is Craigentinny, Temp Traffic lights, no roadworks.

The workmen, switch them off when they please.
87

likkitysplit,

ludicrous 02/10/2008 14:12:51
#10 "Cars dont create congestion. Remind me how free the traffic flows when buses are on strike, and the greenways are lifted. Its total bliss."

Its true, it is very noticable, but if you remove buses permanently and all the current bus users get themselves a car then there would be much worse congestion. Suddenly your argument appears to be utter nonsense!
Unless of course you assume the bus-less commuter would revert to walking or better still, staying at home just so as not get in your way.
88

Man On Corstorphine Omnibus,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 14:14:36
"Wullie Gallagher"? Sounds like someone playing inside-left for Celtic during the 1930's. But then trams ARE a 1930's concept are they not?

89

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 14:17:12
87 Like wise

Its nearly the school holidays, less cars on the road

Remind us how free the traffic flows when the schools are on holiday.


The bus strikes were only for a day or 2.

It would have been interesting if they had been out for weeks, and thousands of extra cars took to the roads?
90

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 14:18:39
87 yip the bypass flows freely every morning and evening at the peak times.

and not a bus is sight on the bypass

now what can be causing the problem?
91

Incandescent,

02/10/2008 14:25:03
#90 Try reading the thread for several succinct, correct answers to your embarrassing rhetorical question.
92

GMann,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 14:32:36
"TIE appreciates the patience and co-operation of Leith Walk traders and residents during this period."
Like we have a choice. We don't appreciate or want to co-operate during this period but have a lame duck council who do nothing to help.
Perhaps the council have given up and don't want re-elected. Also I agree with who ever said Burns had a cheek he was in at the start of the whole thing.
93

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 02/10/2008 14:37:08

The tramworks are killing Leith Walk - it looks like Iraq
94

ejstubbs,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 14:50:53
"Pedestrians trying to get across George Street were left with no crossings after traffic lights put in to replace the zebra crossings failed, but these lights are expected to be working by early evening today."

The problem with the pedestrian crossings at the George Street/Hanover Street and George Street/Frederick Street junctions has been ongoing since some westbound services were diverted along George Sreet a few weeks ago. The zebra crossings were removed and pedestrian lights were installed, but they were not switched on until this week. Why not?
95

fresian,

edinburgh 02/10/2008 14:52:13
Funny, most of the shopkeepers down there look like Iraqis as well.
96

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

02/10/2008 14:54:14
Half the reason we have this pain is because edinburgh wasnt torn apart by a motorway a la Glasgow.

Cheer up folks, the city will return to normal one day. I hope.
97

Solo Lobo,

02/10/2008 14:55:53
In a vain attempt to assist traffic flow, George Street now has double yellow lines on both sides to prevent parking, and loading and unloading between 07.00 and 19.00 hours is prohibited. No prior warning was given before this "patch" was applied so this also means no consultation with businesses, residents or other interested parties. Strangely centre street parking still remains, no doubt so that revenue from motorists will not be lost.

I would have thought that new Traffic Regulation Orders would be required before such a major change was implemented but obviously not in this case.

This will have a knock on effect on businesses in George Street who are now unable to receive goods or to load vehicles for customer deliveries. As if things for retailers were not bad enough. Perhaps the much vaunted rates rebate will kick in, in the same manner it's been avoided for all the other retailers who have been ignored in Leith Walk, Haymarket etc.

A sticking plaster over a gaping wound, a desperate act, from an inept consortium, building a tramLINE in a city which doesn't need it.
98

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 02/10/2008 14:56:13
I agree with 82 , but many of them are repairing the neglect after years of Labour inaction .
99

Concerned of Leith,

02/10/2008 14:58:15
#80

Willie Gallagher is currently on a salary of £170k with a bonus of £350k if Edinburgh Tram Line One is completed on time and on budget. (The on-time bit presumably by the revised deadline of July 2011!)
100

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 15:03:07
When are people going to realise that traffic disruption and delays are going to become the norm once this ridiculous train set is in place?

Just look at the proposed tram map and you will see what I mean.
101

mystic,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 15:08:08
Theres no way back now. We just have to live with the mess. All we can do now is not to vote labour at the next Scottish or general election.

www.SeeingEdinburgh.co.uk
102

,

02/10/2008 15:17:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
103

likkitysplit,

Thatchers legacy still biting us 02/10/2008 15:23:08
#89. Agreed. I missed that point about school run traffic.
Lets not be erses here and admit that were all to blame for believing the dream that cars give us freedom when in fact it is the exact opposite. We choke on the fumes, die early from stress and suffer the economic and security instability that comes from dependency filling the tank.
Thats slavery ya bass!